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#29 How to fast track Financial independence (AND find more meaning in your work)

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If you really study wealth for long enough and go deep enough, you’ll start to see a clear pattern. And this pattern relates to how the ‘self made’ types use their time and talent to earn money. It just so happens to be the quickest and most rewarding route also. In this episode we reveal the fast lane to financial independence that most personal finance gurus refuse to talk about. If you want to achieve financial independence without having to wait until you’re too old to enjoy your money, this episode is for you.

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Hello and welcome to the show. Passive income project. I’m here with Ryan. Welcome back.

Ryan: That’s good to be back made. I feel like a guest today. It’s been a while since we sat together and spoke.

Terry: That’s cause I got a bit sick of you.

Ryan: Yeah, that’s fair enough. To be honest, I’ll draw the space, Sarah and Dave, and Elise .

Terry: All right. What are we talking about today?

Ryan: Well today, we’re going to be talking about something that I think gets left out in most personal finance conversations. It’s this area of money and creating wealth that can get skipped over. But we’re a big listeners of like fire podcasts. We read all the blogs, try to stay across all of that stuff.

And this is the one thing that gets missed.

Terry: We’re just not spoken openly about, is it

Ryan: No I don’t think so. No. And so we’re going to,

Terry: but it’s so important. This, the one thing it’s licensed to fast track, like if you study wealth and you pull it right down to the studs and you keep pulling on the thread and you get right down to the source, you’re going to see that anyone that achieves any level of wealth, I would say 99% of them do this, but nobody really in Phi talks about it. Yeah. So let’s talk about it.

Ryan: This is about getting in the fast line. No doubt. And I think if you want to achieve. That level of independence, that level of wealth sooner in your life, if it’s at 30 or 40, or even at 50,  then this is probably the vehicle they’re going to choose to ride in.

Terry: Yeah. So I reckon if you’ve crunched the numbers and you’ve actually gone on the compound interest calculators, and you looked at how much you’re saving and what you can invest in your return. And you’re like, oh man, this just gets like a wall. And you’re thinking, is there another wiser, a better Y yeah.

Can I space the way this is the why isn’t it?

 Yep. It is

So Mauro give us a bit of a drum roll because I want to do a little bit of a reveal here. So I’m fancy. Tell us what is

Ryan: it? It’s business. It’s the vehicle of business as a means to create wealth.

Terry: And when you say business, let’s just quickly define business,

Ryan: basically business at its most simplest form, right. Is pure. I’m solving a problem for somebody else. And they value me solving that problem more so than they do the money that they have in their pocket. That’s all it is solving your problems with someone and then them being willing to pay you for that. And then finding more of them and finding more of them. So replicating that as much as he can. Yeah.

Terry: Man I did an MBA. They didn’t tell me that’s what, the definition of business though. Very big complex thing. Yeah. You would have to learn about management, accounting, things that are valuable stuff, but none of it practical.

Ryan: Yeah. But now it’s HCA has simple. It actually is. No, that’s not a bad. Yeah. But this is not something that is spoken about much in reality is like, this is the vehicle that can really collapse the time it takes to get. I

Terry: reckon if you’re an average person and you’re just an average person, but you are a giver up

Ryan: no one listening to these podcasts is average.

Terry: Yeah, that’s true. But you’re a little bit above everything, but if you’re a normal person, right. But you’re a giver, I reckon that you can achieve financial independence as we define it within five years through business.

Ryan: Yep. When you say way, define. What do you mean?

Terry: I mean, the experience you’re having and what money is doing for you. So take yourself away from the idea of net worth and think about what the money is for. You’re going to have what the money is for why sooner than waiting 15, 25, 30 years having a compounded in the market to then have some of those choices and some of those experiences. And I guess that’s what we want to break down in this, in this short series, we’ve been talking a lot about money and relationships, and I feel like that can be a real obstacle to your getting ahead because you’re not harnessing your energies. This is an accelerator. This is an amplifier. Being able to do this, isn’t it?

Ryan: Yep. Oh, we’re all still trying to climb this hill. Right. And we want to get to what we call personal finance, Nevada, which is where got this passive portfolio of investments that pay you enough to cover all your living expenses. But the truth is, yeah, you can get to that level of wealth that you’re talking about much sooner, like where you’re not giving too much of yourself, you’re not sacrificing too much of your life. And you actually feel like you’re making a contribution and you’re earning the income along the way. Why to build that.

I’m excited by this, this topic and the world is heading this direction. Anyway, like you look at what’s happened recently with the pandemic and how much that has kind of thrown a cap amongst the pigeons in terms of how work gets done. And people now realize that autonomy and flexibility and all of those things are much more available to them now.

And they can still try that Tom and that challenge to earn the income that they have been. And it’s kind of throwing all that stuff up in the air and then we have to redefine it now,

Terry: also the costs. The time cost of earning money, the way that it wasn’t. You know, there are a lot of people now that are basically saying, I actually don’t want to make that trade off anymore. I don’t want to trade three hours of my life commuting to, and from work to earn this, this money. And so works telling me that I have to come back into work and I’m seriously considering saying no. So I think people are looking for new ways to earn money. And this is not a new way. It’s a way that most people don’t think is available to them, but it absolutely is because technology, the internet has made the number of actions and interactions that are available to you. Basically unlimited. Now you can reach anyone and everyone, if you’re listening to this podcast, you might be in America, you could be in Europe, you could be in South Africa and we’ve got listeners there. We’ve got listened to all over the planet. These are actions and interactions that never ever were possible. And so if you can find the people that you want to serve and they can find you technology’s unlocked that whole thing. So it’s really just down to, are you willing to do that bit of work to get it going? Because that’s all. You’re working hard. Anyway, you might as well work hard in a way that’s actually going to pay you back much sooner.

Ryan: Yeah. Or before, I guess before internet, before social media, if you are solving that problem for somebody else, you’d be only looking at your network of people and thinking about, is there enough people in my network that I can solve that for, that they can pay me for it. It might be, uh, the town or the city that you live in, but now there’s a global audience and you can rise to the top of your specific nation or whatever problem you solve so quickly.

Yeah. Technology makes that possible.

Terry: I almost think you really got to consider it. Now, if you honestly serious about achieving those financial goals, you have to consider it because I guess the middle-class here in Australia, at least hasn’t really seen a pirates are real pyros. I know that the minimum wage was lifted the other day, but it says of the middle-class.

They haven’t really seen a real piracy in relation to inflation. I haven’t seen that for days. Yeah.

Ryan: Not like the cost of living has grown.

Terry: Yeah. And so if you’re looking to increase your income and speed that whole thing out, like you kind of have to look at it. Sorry. I think those three changes the way that people are looking to change the way they work technology, unlocking the possibilities.

And then the fact that you’ve got to work harder and harder for less and less in business, you kind of want to start looking around

Ryan: if you’re on a salary, I wouldn’t distance yourself from this conversation either because the truth is you’re still a business. You might just be a business of one and you’ve got one customer it’s that person or that organization that you’ve got an agreement with. And it’s more just thinking about all right, you’ve got a specific set of talents of time as well that you’re trying to one organization right now, can you actually try that with others as well that have the same problem that you are getting better and better at solving?

Terry: Yeah. Like even if you just start to think this way, start to think in a business sense, which is not very different, other than looking for better ways to solve people’s problems. That’s all it is. You start to think like a business owner. You’re probably gonna find that you do actually get more valued because of that. And so what’s interesting is I think the stat is about 30 grand at costs. An organization to replace you in terms of finding another person, then retraining the time the productivity costs and the recruiting cost. And so as a 30 grand pay rise available to you, if you detach yourself a little bit from the job and thinking that you need them, now, they need you. And you’re going to make yourself more valuable over time by thinking like an owner, because that’s where we’re going to be discussing through this series.

Ryan: Yeah. I love that. So it’s not necessarily just about building your own business. It might also just be tapping into thinking about how they think exactly. And having that insight

Terry: management consulting and leadership stuff that I’ve done over the years. This to me is I guess, one of the biggest cheat codes that I see in organizations, the people that have the commercial nows that understand how business works are the ones that get fast-tracked. So even if you don’t feel like you want to do that, learning how to think like a business owner will make you more money.

Ryan: Yeah. I love that. No. So we’ve just come off the back of talking about relationships and yeah. We’re making a transition here out. Wait, so this is a new series focused on business. What are we going to cover in this series?

Terry: So just in this first episode, we’re just going to talk about the big benefits as we see it. And we’re gonna try to break those down and explain why we feel like a dollar earned from your own business is worth 10 times a dollar rent from somebody else’s 10 times. I like that as a big goal, but I really believe that’s true. And we will explain why that is later on. So we’ll be talking about that also our philosophy in terms of, I guess, we’re going to a bit more nuanced now in terms of the earn more part of our, our game plan for minimums, we’ve got the full money moves.

This is a bit of a cheat code within that of move of earn more money. And so we’re going to be talking about what our philosophy is in terms of the order and the sequence of things and how we see it, what’s guiding our decisions and you might have your own philosophy, but we just kind of wanted to lay it out for you here so you can understand why we’re making the points that we are.

And then we’re just going to talk about why people don’t do it. Why people feel like it’s unavailable to them. And hopefully we can break down a few myths in this part and get you open to the idea that this could be an avenue or a pathway that you could take, because there are plenty of people darker than you that have done it.

Trust me. And I know you don’t think I’m talking to you now. I’m talking to you. I love that seriously to anyone. All you’ve got to do is be a giver and you’ve got to really care about the person that you’re trying to serve. So we want to break that down in this first episode. And then after that, we’re actually going to bring on some people who are a little bit ahead of us in business and see if we can learn from them, how they see what they do, what they believe to be most important, and maybe some lessons from them around how they took the leap and made that transition as well.

So there’s a little bit of selfishness in this cause we want to get the stillness for ourselves where we feel like it’s quiet, valuable for everybody else. Yeah. And then once we’ve heard from a few other people, what we want to do is come back together and we’ll do another episode at the end of it, in terms of summarizing everything we’ve learned, plus how we feel about it.

Now, anything that we want to add to it from that position.

Ryan: So, what you’re saying is you’re leaving me again.

Terry: Yes.

Ryan: Right. Well, we’ll regroup. So just be present in the moment. I love it. Yeah. Nice. All right. So if this is really for someone that’s been kind of punching the numbers, thinking about how long this is going to take to reach fire financial independence, I’m kind of thinking, or I want this to happen a bit quicker and also want to just see opportunities in a different light as well within if you’re on a salary as well. First thing you mentioned was why business? What do you think?

Terry: Well I reckon there’s a few reasons but the biggest one is control of your time. And so if you’ve been working for an organization during COVID, you’ve now got back control of your time. You actually now understand the value of that. You’ve got that full flexibility autonomy in your day, and that’s a massive boost to your wellbeing and your perception about going back to work.

The reason you don’t want to is because you perceive in, you know, deep down that that wellbeing is going to go down and other people are going to be now more, I guess, in control of that time. So the biggest one for me is control of time. And we talk about this a lot, and we talked about it in the first, second, third episode.

That time is the most valuable resource that you have at your disposal, because you cannot get any time back. So when you’re on a business, you essentially get to call the shots on how you use that time. And that might mean sometimes that you take a day off when you want to, just because you want to, that might mean that you finished work early because you want to pick your kids up from school.

These are all choices that become available to you as a business owner that aren’t beforehand. And I think this is why a lot of women become business owners or, or business operators after they have kids, because they start to see that. I want to figure out a better way of doing it. So for me, control of time, huge, huge benefit to your well-being, which is a benefit to your wealth, because remember what’s the point of money if it doesn’t improve your life. So it basically allows you to cut straight to the benefits of money rather than having to get a whole lot of it to get it. Does that make sense?

Ryan: 100% and it’s those subtle things that make such a big difference? I think as well, if we tend to think about control of time, sometimes in those bigger ones, like being able to go overseas from. Or take those holidays, but even those more granular ones, the things that I’ve noticed. I remember when I was working for somebody else, just going for a walk during the day, like every hour, I like to get up and go for a walk and it was judged. Yeah. Like, you know, it impacted the culture

Terry: that was social deviance.

Ryan: It was social deviance. But now where we’re at, in Torquay down by the beach and, just to be able to get up and go for a walk down to the beach and some days I need a five minute walk, some days I need a half an hour walk and that’s okay,

Terry: well, that’s another benefit. Isn’t it control of location. We want to work by the beach. So that’s what we do. Yeah. We want to be able to have, go for a walk at lunch by the beach or even go in there. Yeah. That’s what we do. Yeah. And if that changes, then we can change.

Ryan: Yeah. That’s huge. Like just thinking about business in general, and this is not specific to having your own business. It’s true for salary as well, but being able to apply leverage. And when I say leverage, what I’m talking about is decoupling your time and your income. So your unit of time and how much income you can earn from that unit of time. And so when you’re on a salary, usually you quite rigid in that one hour might mean that you can earn a hundred dollars, but in business you can really decouple that to 10 times a hundred times that amount.

So you can go from one unit of time,  earning you a thousand or $10,000 or more. And so that really just comes down to being able to build upon, systems, processes, products, people, yep. Compounding your brand, like how people perceive you on all of those things. There’s podcasts. As an example, there’s this, all of these ways that you can actually compound and grow the ecosystem in the way that you actually exchange yourself for money. Whereas usually when you’re doing that for somebody else, you’re building that for them and you don’t get to see the full reward of that.

Terry: You got another job and all you start at zero. Most of the time, in everybody else’s eyes that doesn’t know you, you start at zero. I remember when I worked for the wallabies, which isn’t the nation’s national rugby team  managing all their players nationally. You know, I went from that and I went and worked for Geelong. And because the guy who ran the program didn’t know me. he just looked at me and said, you’re 28, which means you don’t know anything. And I was, I literally had like, everything that I’d done the 10 years I’d done before, that was almost irrelevant.  People are busy, they don’t want to do the thinking. And so they’ll just look at you and categorize you. And you basically start again at zero. Whereas in business, like what you’re saying is I look at our business and I see it as a work of art that we just continually build.

And you’re always trying to fix and Polish a new part, but that the work over time starts to build a body of work that you kind of look back and go, man, that’s a cool and things aren’t necessarily get easier, but it gets easier for you to make a big difference. And I find that to be super valuable, something that I’m proud of.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s right. It’s kind of how you build something that is owning for you as opposed to you being the thing that earns it. But not to say that you can’t have leverage on a salary either. Like leadership is such a important. Element of leverage as well, like managing people. So that is why ladies obviously get paid really great money. And because it’s less about their time, it’s more about the influence of the team and the people underneath them.

Terry: Yeah. Just that point. Leverage. I think people get hung up on it and can be hard to think about cause they use the word leverage with regards to finance a lot of the time, but just think about leverages.

Like you said it before you would be the got one input for one output. I work one hour, I get paid $80 or whatever it is, $50, $40. If you’re the average Aussie, you’re trying to decouple those two things. So it shouldn’t matter how much you work. It should be under what results you get. And when you work in leadership, for example, for a business, it will be righted hourly, but actually you get paid for the work you get done through others.

So your ability to get work done through others and to galvanize build your team and then have that team become productive is why you get paid a lot more than somebody else. That’s why that skill is worth building in business. You can use all the different forms of leverage it’s people leverage the same way.

As in leadership for us, this part gas has leveraged. You said it before. Like if you think about what we’re doing right now, we’re recording a podcast. Someone should be listening in USA. Some will be listening in Europe, Dubai, have we got listeners all over the world, we record at once and it goes to work for us forever.

That’s leverage. Whereas in the past, prior to technology like this, the only time people would be knowing about what you’re talking about is when you go and find the people who stand in front of them, you’d have to do lecture halls all the way around the country. And that’s how people got their name out there and sort of attracted and found the people that work for them.

Whereas we do this once done, but what’s interesting is that it’s not just the media leverage we get from the podcast. It’s the fact that we’re leveraging each other. Like I have a better conversation, a more engaging conversation with you. Then I could have a line. It would just be more of a monologue, a bit of a lecture, but I was just talking to the mock myself.

Right? So that’s better because we bounce off each other. We create a better result. That’s leverage. And then once we press stop on this record, And we sent it through to our editor and he’s going to make our rambling coherent.

Ryan: I met, you got us some nootropic ciders before we started here. And I feel like you’re channeling in the moment.

Terry: Like, you know, there were a lot of times when I’m going and going back and forth with trying to figure out how to make it best come across. We use Mero. Who’s our editor. Thanks mate. Marie makes us sound a lot smarter than we are. Yeah. And I’ve been a product, right? So leverage through each other better product, leverage through the edit top at a product.

And then once that’s done, then we use Emily. Who’s our social media person. And she sort of strips the ideas out of this podcast helps us promote them on social media so that more people come to the podcast. So that’s a great example of different forms of leverage around one ID. And for every episode that we record. It adds to the body of work of already recorded. And so you listen to this one and you go, that was interesting. Maybe I want to listen to another one. So it kind of is this additive thing that sort of feeds in upon itself that just becomes almost like a snowball.

Ryan: Yeah. I feel like you just sold podcasting better than yourself business.

Terry: Yeah. I’m on a roll here. This new Tropic thing is killing it.

Ryan: Yeah. But in saying that it’s important part of business, because you have to develop an audience and find those people that have the problem that you can solve.   Are there any other ones that you can think of in terms of like why

Terry: there are, there’s two more that I wanted to discuss and they’re big ones and the next one, it’s a result of what we’ve just been discussing in terms of leveraging compounding. You do that. Well, you do everything we just described well and use and understand leverage. What you’re gonna find is that your income is uncapped. It’s just comes back to how creative you can be and how hard you want to work for it. I guess the best example I could give is, you know, when COVID hit last year, at least for you, you would have heard from in the last episode,

Ryan: your wife.

Terry: Yeah. Yeah. My wife. So at least she runs a face-to-face business. Most of the time. And for years, I’ve been sort of talking about how this is a little bit of a limitation for her and she needs leverage. And so she’d been working towards an online offering because he’s got just way too many people on our wait list.  you can’t see her for nine months. And so if you just go to see her and you want to be able to touch base with her and stay in the loop in between time, he had no radar sort of reach and help people.

Ryan: Yeah. Limited time.

Terry: Yeah. And so I was like, you will be able to do. So she started working on this idea and putting together this portal where she was creating a bunch of content, lots of practices, mindfulness, routines, meditations, things like this. And then

Ryan: Which are great by the way. Quick promo. Yeah. A grace meditation. Yeah. You guys stretch places to sleep. You want to go to sleep and all that.

Terry: So she’d been putting this together and it was kind of, I was on the Y and then COVID hit bang, you know, her whole face to face thing. And so she was like, oh man, like this just speeds this whole thing up. So what she did was just pull all of our time, attention and energy into this new offering. And then she basically said, okay guys, I’ve got this together for you. And kind of seemed like it was all the pieces came together at the right time because she’d done a lot of thinking, a lot of the late, a lot of the groundwork and when COVID hit, she just kinda went all right.

So the next few weeks I’m going to finish this whole thing off. And it was really well done as a launch, just so much content, so much value that was there. And then she put it out to her list of absolutely diehard fans. And she said, look, guys, I’m starting this online thing. If you’ve been wanting to get in contact with me sooner, and obviously we can’t meet face to face right now, here’s a way for you to interact.

And he has a wife eat alone. And she said, if you want to engage with me as a foundation member, you pay this one price. It’s a one-time fee. You get access forever. So many people took her up on that, but she had a best month ever. So at a time where a lot of people were like other businesses, scientists were losing money and revenue more than ever. And for me, that was a great example of the power of business. I need to make more money. I got to think about a way to do that and then offer more value in a different way. That’s not available to you as an employee. I know we’re sort of juxtaposing images, Chloe and owner, and it’s not worth saying, you know, you’re worth more, you’re better if you’re this person, not at all.

We’re just talking about her. What accelerates your ability to achieve these financial goals?

Ryan: Some more freedom to apply that leverage that also lends back to the technology advancements we’re talking about before. Like we’ve had quite a few people that we work with have actually been better off and kind of reacted in a different way during that time and making more money for it.

Fast tracking that. And I know you were talking about a friend of yours. That was a Pilates instructor, wasn’t it? It’s a friend of Elisa. Yeah. Yeah.

Terry: Shout out to who is Minnie Monroe on Instagram? No, it’s me and Monroe. So yeah, ashes and I she’s a Pilates instructor and she went online with our streaming of a Pilates classes online. So if you’re looking for a good online streaming Pilates class, check her out. Same thing. Yeah. I’m going to pivot. I’m going to do something here. Boom. She’s now absolutely killing it.

Ryan: Yep. Could only fit 20 in a class. And now can have 200 in a class online,

Terry: this example, because I want to bust the myth that it’s all about, just what you’re investing its money in the market, how much you can put in how soon that matters. And so I found this interesting stat about Warren buffet. Who’s obviously the Oracle of investing and everyone sort of talks about him. Warren Buffett, net worth by age. So Warren buffet, when he was 26, had 140 K Warren buffet. By the time he was 30, he had a million dollars. The difference not investing, starting a business,

Ryan: it’s not 10 to 25% return a year.

Terry: So what did he do in that time? He started his investment company and he got his family and his friends. And that’s how he got us got started managing people’s money. So you’re going to see the same pattern, every. It’s the people that are in the business that are making the money. People say this he’s the money in real estate is heaps of money in the business of real estate. It’s the business, it’s the common theme at this point center of everything.

Ryan: And that is such an important one. Like not to say, there’s not money in real estate, not to say there’s not money in share market. And those vehicles, like that’s a place where you store your money and you get paid,

Terry: but it’s a lower rate of return, but it’s passive.

Ryan: Yep. Just pay attention to how is that income or that wealth actually being generated because you’re right. There are people that, for example, flip properties, if you’re flipping properties and you’re making really good money in real estate, you’re in a business, you’re actually in the business of flipping properties, not just the increasing scarcity of that land and that, that building. Okay.

And you’re paying attention. Are you trading your time and your talent for it? Yeah. Or is it just your capital sitting there passive earning you an income? That’s the difference?

Terry: So those things that we talk about, this, it’s just the order of things that matter. So knowing how to convert your active income into passive income, you know, now because you’ve understood investing, but if you can amplify that active income, you can get more passive income. That’s the whole purpose of this idea of, of business.

So that for me is another one. The biggest one, though, for me, is a spiritual return. It sounds weird, but the recognition that you get from helping someone in business versus helping and doing a job as an employee, they’re just not even the same for 10 years. I worked in sport and worked seven days a week all the time, sometimes months and months without having a day off just hours off.

I can remember one time where an athlete turned around and said, look, I really appreciate the effort you’ve put into this. And I can remember zero times. And employer said, really appreciate the work you’re doing. I just got a paycheck. So contrast that with business, we get probably two to three messages a week.

It’s going to be either from a podcast listener. One of the members of our program and the messages are always along the lines of this unbelievable learning this stuff and being able to put it into practice and helping me get this stuff sorted. I really want to thank you guys for the work you’re doing as a form of payment. I feel like it’s almost as valuable as money. Yeah. And we keep all these messages by the way. So if you’ve written a review on our podcast or you’ve reached out to us on Instagram, through dams, or you’re one of our members and you send us an email. We keep every single one of these and we put them in a channel and I go and look at that channel when I want to get energy.

Ryan: It’s the greatest energy source. There is probably better than these nootropics nootropics. That’s huge. It’s absolutely huge. And I think like I also associate the money side of it as well. Like if you’re actually earning an income, that means that you’re solving a lot of problems for people. And we always think about it as certificates of appreciation.

It’s I’m Daniel Lapin, Daniel Lapin. That’s his name? Jewish rabbi thou shall prosper, really framed this well for us, a dollar earned is a certificate of appreciation for helping somebody else. And when you think about it, like that gives you energy. When you get those feedback loops, it gives you energy. So yeah, I think that’s such a great point.

Terry: All those things together, the way you’re owning the money really matters. So we kind of talked about where you went the money from and where you do the work to earn the money. If you can choose how that happens, you’re actually already financially free. That’s why we say you can achieve it sooner.

We’ve got this now. So if I want to take a trip, get one new camper trailer and go up north for three months, that’s fully possible to us. And that’s the value of having money, right? So what do you want the money for? You want the money to be able to choose, to be able to do those things? So if you change the way you earn the money, it’s worth more.

Ryan: Yeah. What you’re saying there is, it’s not that you have the money now to do those things as means of having an invested, it’s more just the way you’re earning your money, gives you the freedom to earn the money, plus.

Terry: Exactly. Yeah. So what’s the whole point of money anyways, to be able to help you afford those experiences. So if you change the way you earn the money, you can afford it now. And that’s why we say wealth is available to you sooner because you can have everything that you want from work. Much sooner just by changing the way that you earn your money

Ryan: and still be on the track towards financial independence.

Terry: Exactly.

Ryan: Yeah. Which is what you’re chasing it. Financial independence anyway, which is wealth. Yeah. You’re

Terry: not trying to escape anything. I don’t need to retire in another three to four years. What would I do? Yeah. You probably do the same thing. I wouldn’t want to be, we’d be still sitting here talking to each other some way to help. So yeah. That’s why we say you can drag the whole process for what and foster back that wealth.

Ryan: Yeah. I love that. No, that’s all right. So we’ve talked about why business, then you mentioned we’re going to talk about our philosophy around this. So yeah. Yeah. What is that?

Terry: Yeah, so I just, I wanted to clarify and kind of go back to the early model. If you haven’t listened to season one, I would highly encourage you to do it because it gives you,  the foundation for everything we’ve been discussing since then. And if you go back into season one, there’s an episode. I think it’s episode three or four, where we talk about the four money moves to escape the rat race.

We talked about maximizing your earning potential, supercharging your savings, growing your wealth, and then protect. And what we’re discussing now is kind of like a nuance or a, almost like a cheat code within that maximize your earning potential business is the cheat code. And so I guess I was wanting to give some order to that sequence.

So Arik and the first step is you’re investing in your human capital, invest your time and talent to figure out how to earn money. And that’s, you can either go to school to do that and get a qualification and then get into a line of work. But you got to think about where you work as also an investment.

So this is where I think being employee, if you’re smart about it can actually be V track and Eric, and your example is pretty instructive. So do you wanna just quickly talk through your journey from accounting into financial planning and then doing the masters and, and how you kind of thought about, I guess, investing your time and talent to learn skills people would then piffle.

Ryan: Yeah. So how did I think. How I do perceive it now and whether or not I was completely aware of it at the time was basically just probably not. It was, I’m getting paid to learn though. I thought it’s such 20, 20 as it always is, but that’s why he wanted to learn it from other people. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think about it as basically just learning on someone else’s dime, getting an apprenticeship, getting the mentor, ship, learning, all the skills kind of product, devising yourself, but getting paid by someone else, obviously you’re trading yourself for that person, helping them build whatever they’re trying to build, but you’re also accumulating your own human capital.

So building that up so that you can actually then take that and then put it to market.

Terry: Okay. So she’s at wood product devise. Let’s just break that down for people. Where does it come from first?

Ryan: Nevada,  referring in a bow, but it’s basically just thinking about yourself as a product. Like how can you be of more service to other people in a similar vein is what we’ve been talking about, but really how do you package up your skillset in a way that you can take that to market, give it to a multiple sources. And that means that you have multiple sources of income.

Terry: Yeah. So just being deliberate about the skills and the things you’re learning, and then the way you’re packaging that up. So people are looking at you saying, I go to that person because I want help with X, or I want this person because I know how to do Y you obviously got your accounting degree, went into accounting.

You’re like, it’s not accounting, probably more financial planning. And then you ended your masters in financial planning from there, but along the way, you’re working in financial advice, you’re actually learning and picking up the skills or the ways of thinking. And you already know that people are paying for those skills.

So you’re basically, like you said before, learning on someone else’s. So it actually, it’s less important when you start out what you want. More so that you’re just earning something, getting paid to learn. And if you’re not learning a skill that you want to try later on, then change your career.

Ryan: Yeah. That’s a huge one.

If you don’t see yourself doing it longterm, change your career into a place where you do see yourself earning longterm and learning a skill that you can then build a business

around. And that’s important. There’s the experience of the work that you’re actually doing, what you’re getting paid for.

And you do want to align that, but then you also got the skills that you’re building up on the outside, which is helping you with the next one. So like even when I was working for somebody else and I was developing that skill set. And as I mentioned, like learning on their dime, all the learning was around business and like thinking about, or how to actually take what I have and transfer it over here.

So that I’m more of a product to a greater market, basically.

Terry: Exactly. Yeah. And that’s why for me, when I left sport, I went into management consulting and did the MBI, so I could get into management consulting. And I wanted to do that specifically because I looked at myself as a product and I looked at the gap analysis.

I said, I have all this knowledge around behavior, behavior change and understanding how to help people achieve their goals. But in order to make that valuable, I need to be able to communicate and have on someone else, understand it. And so I went into management consulting to be able to do that because what’s your job there. You’re teaching adults, these new skills and adult learning is what we do. When teaching adults and you skill. And so going into managing and zoning, it’s kind of a stepping stone for me. How am I going to pick up these skills that I can see that can amplify the value of what I already know? So I got paid to do that along the way, and because they’re rare skills, presenting, facilitating all those kind of things, you get paid pretty good for them.

That’s a signal in itself. You know, I have, I guess the knowledge that I have these skills on top of it, that we then use in the business, how do we of structure our program and how do we get these ideas across? Or a lot of people come and say to us, look at the why our podcast put together. We get a lot of comments around.

It’s really obvious. You guys really planned this and sort of put a lot of thought into it. It is because, you know, that’s what I’ve been learning for the last five years. How do we get ideas across, break it down in a way that makes sense for people,

Ryan: If you could see the structure of the tablet. It seems sitting in front of me, these words like desire, interest, attention.

Terry: Yeah. It’s structured. Like we saw probably three, four hours before we hit record on every app. And hopefully that’s what people are coming back to us and telling us. So then you got that investing in human capital and getting paid to learn these skills. Then you got to learn how to keep and grow your money, which is what we’ve been discussing the whole way through.

Right? Like how do we save that money in a way that’s sustainable? And then how do we invest consistently? Because as soon as you do that, the harder your money works for you. So if you’ve got those things sorted, now, you’re thinking, how do I speed the whole thing up? And this is where y’all are. How can I build a business as an asset around my signature strengths?

So again, using ourselves as the example together where a lot better than we are separately, what can we both offer together? It’s unique and different? What are our signature strengths? How can we put them together, create something completely distinct from what’s out there, because there are a lot of people who understand what you understand.

There are a lot of people who understand what I understand, but putting the two together, there’s not many. And that’s, I think a big difference between what we do and what other money people do. Money. People just talk about money. And we talk about people a lot more than we talk about money, because people are the ones that manage money.

Ryan: And that just sort of talking about, that’s kind of highlighted massive learning for me in the lab. Probably six months has also been, yes, there’s your signature strengths, but there’s also your action biases, the things that you just find easy and the things that you just enjoy doing, the things that you just feel drawn to, and the things that you’re curious about, that’s kind of what you get in business.

You can do the things that you’re good at. And then you can like the episode, we talked about the who, not how find the hose for the things that you’re not great at. And also partner with people that are better at the things that are not in tune, just to lean into.

Terry: Yeah, someone said to me the other day, I love your spreadsheets. I’m like, I’m not going to take any credit for Ryan spreadsheets. I don’t even bother, like, I dunno, Einstein of Excel. So that’s an example for me, where I’m like those tools, the way that you can, like you said, Or pay for. So our editor, Mary is so much better at editing and we are obviously, and sorry, that’s where the whole is better than the sum of your parts.

That’s such a value of businesses. Like you don’t have to do everything. You only just need to do the thing you do really well and then get help with everything else. If you’ve been loving and want to continue the conversation, then you need to check out our new private podcast community. Think of it like lockout, digital Treehouse.

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There’s a test called the I’ll be I index. And this is an easy way for you to understand what your action biases. And I would highly recommend that you spend the money to do it because there are ways that you get results that are natural to you. And there are ways that you do not get results that are very unnatural to you.

So I don’t love personality tests because you can fall into sort of fixed mindsets. But if you do look at your life, there are areas of your life that you just tend to be. And then the areas where you are not productive. And so easy example here is this content creation stuff. I’ve got an action bias towards this stuff.

I enjoy thinking about, I enjoy conceptualizing it, planning it out and then putting it together. And then I think of every episode that we do as a. That’s not your actual boss. Like I’ve said this before I drag you to the muck. Every time I’m like, it’s in the calendar, get yourself there, which is fine. It doesn’t have to be.

And that’s why, I guess we have like different parts of the load that we carry at different times, but then we lean more on your action boss in different areas of that.

Ryan: Yeah. And like, I’ve noticed this with, you know, we just built online learning platform that really kind of helps all that members move through a really good sequence and really connect with the broad ideas at the right time and the structure and the systems and the development of all of that. Like artists loves playing with it. It was just one of those things that I was just drawn to. It just kept coming back. I was so satisfied, blessing the progress with it.

Terry: Well, I’ll look at that action boss thing and my strength. Counteract your strengths. Right? So I am usually the one that’s saying there’s a new thing we need to be looking at.

And so I’ve got a lot of bias toward exploring a new spaces. Let’s start a podcast. You like podcasts, what are you talking about? We do this. And like, it’s usually even notion these kinds of things. I want to have a look at this. I will look at this. On the lookout and sort of digging this stuff, but then what happens is after that is usually you sort of look into it and go, okay, cool.

This is how we’re going to make it work. And I think it’s that combination of the two that it’s very hard for me to do it all myself the other way. And it’s very insane for you. Like you get exhausted sometimes by how much I’m pay setting in that way

Ryan: you go through about 20 new ideas a month. It takes me about three months to process them all.

Yeah. It’s always the

same box you will frequently say, I now understand why you said yes,

which is three months later. And there was no wanting things that got pushed away into the rubbish bin and along the way. Yeah. Yeah.

Terry: But you lean on what each good at. And I think that’s in a business, you can literally design the organism cause that’s what a business is. It’s a living, breathing organism. You can design the organism to best suit you. You do not suit the business. If that makes sense. And the more that you get it to suit you the better at all. You know, if I, all of a sudden I’m having to do all your, that kind of stuff you do, we’re going to battle. Yeah.


Ryan: And vice versa. We’ll be at one podcast every six months. Yeah. But that’s right. And that’s not just in partnership. You could just be a business of one and that is still true. Like you might just have people or systems or whatever it might be working to fuel your gaps. And you can just focus on the things that you do really well.

And what that means is you’re far more effective and you don’t burn out on your willpower either. So it’s easier to show up and do more. And when you get the feedback, like you mentioned before, those emails and those texts, you just got this infinite energy source.

Terry: Yeah. And that’s like, if you just think about it, like you’re literally designing your own job and that job just happens to be the shit that you love to do

Ryan: for the people that you want to serve.

All right. Good. So we’ve covered investing in human care. Learn how to keep and manage your money, build a business around your signature strengths and your action boss is one more.

Terry: There is. Yeah. So if you’re doing this good enough and you’re using all those things we discussed before, the power of leverage, you’re doing what you do really well, and it’s all humming. What you’re gonna find is your income continues to go up and really does not have a cap. It just depends on your vision. Your vision is your cap. How big do you want to make this thing? How many people do you want to serve? Phil Knight is a mentor of ours that, that we’ve never met, but I’ve read his book several times.

And what I love about Phil’s story is he went on a worldwide trip before he started narc. And it was the trip that expanded his whole vision about how big the world is. And I guess the human condition. And then he sort of asked himself, what role do I want to play in this game? And he’s like, I love running.

And I love the feeling that I get when I run. And I want to bring that feeling to mobile. And then he starts blue ribbon sports, which later becomes Nike. And when that happens and the income continues to go up because you’re serving more people. What are you going to find is saving becomes really fucking easy.

Look, it’s easy for you to save a guy. Who’s been listening to our podcast and he talked about how he was pretty much at fire. And, uh, the reason he is, is because again, he sort of built his own business around this really particular skillset, cyber security. And he basically taught it to himself, build a business around it.

And I said to him, How much do you say Eddie said all about 80 to 90% of my income. And most people would like, that’s impossible. It’s actually not. If you’re earning a million dollars, that’s used to living on a hundred thousand dollars, you wouldn’t keep the whole million, but let’s say you take home a million dollars after tax that’s you saving 900,000 and living off a hundred thousand.

So the more that you learn, it’s easier, easier, easier to save. This is where I think it starts to get really fun because as you do better and you help more people and you get more certificates appreciation, which is money, then you’re actually converting your active income into passive income through your investments at a much greater rate.

So I feel like the order is still important to understand saving investing first. But once you’ve got that dialed in, you really want to start to focus on, all right, let’s pull this lever a bit harder. This earning lever and businesses, that vehicle, and as that happens, it’s all my slack. If you’re able to keep saving, saving in that way, it’s because you are doing a good job serving people.

Ryan: Phil Knight’s such good example because you look at what Nike is now and you think RIA good example. But when he was running blue ribbon, his first, I think it was seven years. He worked four days, four or five days as an accountant from memory. And so it was his side hustle for six or seven years before he actually was able to go into the business full-time

Terry: and that’s because he was employing people around him who are better at things than he was.

Ryan: Yep. That’s true. So he was, he had salesmen and some guys working for him before he can even employ himself full time, but also you can work somewhere and earn a salary and be getting that fulfillment and that sense of contribution and know that that business is actually creating that for you as well.

Like that level of wealth, maybe not in time, because you’re going to be quite stretched. But at some point that could become the thing.

Terry: It’s this virtuous cycle again, where you do a better job, you’re earning more money, and then you’re converting that active income into passive income. And if you’re a smart living within your means the whole time, you’re essentially just layering in different levels of lifestyle.

And you’re locking those in through passive income.  We can make a much better return in our business that we can in the stock market, but it’s an active income. So the smart thing to do is to take the surplus that you earn from your active income then, and not all of it, because you still want to re-invest in your own business, but then can start slowly methodically converting that into passive income and increasing that over time so that, you know, essentially at some point you’re like whether I have the business or not, it’s irrelevant. And then you’ve got that whole, the world’s your oyster out of that,

Ryan: or on the other side of things, you can actually work at removing yourself from your business in a lot of ways, too, through systems through people through different means. So you’re actually creating passivity within your business. And that can happen much sooner as well.

Terry: Well, there are a bunch of systems, but this podcast is a passive system in our business. We do it once and it continues to work for us forever. We keep doing the episodes, but this episode, when we record it and publish it, it’s going to work for us at night. It’s going to work for us in the morning and never asked for a sick day and sorry. Anyway. Yeah. So like there’s a version of you that just, he goes to sleep. Same as me

Ryan: and I’m actually a relatively lazy book. Uh that’s good. Nice.

Terry: So for me, that’s the game. So figuring out how to make money, figure out how to keep it and grow it, then take what you’re really, really good at. Build yourself a business around it. Use the power of leverage, use everything that’s available to you. And as you start to go right in that business, you’re going to start to keep some more of that money and your income is going to continue to grow and grow and grow. And then systematically, consistently. Taking that off the table, converting it into a passive income, building that up in this way, though.

You’re actually not trading all your time, along the way in doing something you don’t want to do to get to somewhere you do, you actually get to enjoy the journey. And like we said before, everything that we believe to be wealth is already available to you on the journey, if you do it. Right. So yeah, there’s risk that you take and let’s not be silly about it.

Like you take risk and you’re betting on yourself, but who better to bet on you’re in complete control of your outcomes. And if you’re smart about it, it’s really just a willing to stay in the game and continue to learn because the only way you fail is if you quit, if you don’t quit, you just see it as learning and you just stack learning on top of it. So. Until one day you’ve got some wisdom and then that wisdom very soon becomes wealth.

Ryan: Yeah. And what you’re kind of getting to there. And I know we’re going to discuss this in its own is why people don’t do it. And you kind of mentioned, like taking a bet on yourself. That can be a hard thing to do. Like self doubt is such an enormous kind of monster that can stand in the way of actually pulling the trigger and doing that. And especially when you hear all these things like 99% of businesses fail, because all of these things just kind of grow this idea of business as being this complex mechanism that is dangerous as well.

And that definitely gets into white luck. We, it took us some time to start a business with all of those things. All of those books. All of those kind of stories that we had the breakdown and rethink about it.

Terry: I think we pontificated for nine months or so. And then we took nine months to get a license in financial planning and then only six months to figure out we didn’t want the license.

Ryan: Yeah. So like going back to that stat before 99% of businesses fail in the first five years, for example, we had a business that was in financial advice and we shut it down to focus on this one that would be considered a fail on the statistics, but really it was just learning. It was just an evolution.

It was a stepping stone towards where we are now.

Terry: Yeah. We were just saying this business model, we get it. It’s not necessarily for us. We feel like we are going to do a better job, serving a different kind of person in a different way. And so I don’t consider that failure at all. Actually, I thought of it as progress because it’s one step closer to the direction you’re actually going to go in the direction, you know, Yeah.

So those stats that you’re talking about, it’s so easy to get caught up in that stuff. Like we said before, the only way to fail is to quit. If you don’t quit, you’re not failing. You’re just learning. And I think that’s the approach to take, go into this with an open mind and I guess a level of persistence knowing that not everything’s going to work and that’s the way it is.

It’s almost overcoming that conditioning of like, I want to fail. I think we were talking about last week. I was like, we’re not failing fast enough. We need to throwing more out there and seeing what doesn’t work faster in order to grow faster. So it’s kind of a rewiring and I think that’s why it’s tough because you know, we go to school and we’re taught, don’t fail all the way through you.

Shouldn’t be failing. But actually the way to win is to. you just have to lose long enough to learn, and then you figure out what to do.

Ryan: It’s not true. It’s not true. Yeah. And I think even just to deepen that, like, if you’re in a place where you’re not feeling fulfilled, you’re not feeling like your time is your own and you feel like you’re sacrificing too much of yourself, but you’re still thinking if I go into business, I’m worried I might fail. Then the reality is you’re already failing.

Terry: Yeah. It’s just slowly.

Ryan: And the only way is to actually type that next move. And then if you fail out that too so bit, but at least you’re a step closer and you’ve figured out two things that haven’t worked. There might be five that don’t work before you find the one that does.

Terry: Yeah. It’s not going to be Thomas Edison where you filed 10,000 times to find out what works. It’s not going to be that it’s not that hard. It’s not a lot. It’s not, you have to figure it out way quicker than that. And it’s just being open to that,  honest enough with yourself to be able to do it. And I dunno, I find the whole thing to be a pretty cool exercise in personal development, because if we’re selfish, we lose. If we’re selfless, we win. So whenever we’re not things aren’t going really well and thinking to myself where we’re not serving people good enough. And what do we need to improve? It’s really that simple. So you kind of get punished for being selfish. You get rewarded for being selfless. I feel like it makes you a better person if you are pertinent to the lessons.

Ryan: Yep. The other thing I reckon with business while people don’t do it is because it appears more dangerous and employment or being on a salary is safe. But the way we think about this is if you’re serving more people by our business, you’ve got multiple sources of income, maybe a hundred, 200 clients or 10 clients, for example, that is safer than having one source of income being that person, you trade your time for that organization. And like you said before, let’s say they do pull the cord on that. And for whatever reason, you then have to start from scratch in a lot of ways to build up your own brand and your own reputation. If you start again somewhere else,

Terry: it was exactly what happened, right? So wallabies, Australian rugby, they’re like a financial basket case. And basically almost became an amateur sport because they were going under financially.

So they had a bunch of PWC consultants come through on one of those consultancies or KPMG, one of them. And they’ll basically walk, you guys have got to find $2 million within the next week or your sport doesn’t exist. And so they literally laid off. That 30 to 40% of the workforce in one day. And my role was one of the last created, which is one of the first out.

I moved my whole life, my wife, Elise, and I moved up to Sydney. None of that matters to them. They were just like, sorry, dude, your job doesn’t exist. And there was a very big slap in the face and I’m really glad it happened at that age because I was like, you cannot put all your eggs in that basket because it is not what you think it is. And that’s when I started to really understand, like, it’s not just that you’re going to get all these rewards from business, but it’s also over time, a safer place to be because you’re in control. And if you’re not, then all those things can happen beyond your level of, and I’m going to tell you six months out, oh, by the way, it’s a little bit, a little bit Dawsey for your job here in the future, because of course they wouldn’t like, you’re not going to work the same.

You’re going to be stressed. Yeah. Yeah. You’re going to be under pressure, all that sort of stuff. So it’s more likely that it’s going to happen the way it happened to me where you made, you made redundant in one minute and then all of a sudden you’re like, what am I gonna do. And then, like I said, it didn’t matter that I’ve been in sport for 10 years.

I turned up to a new place and the Blockstack don’t know you you’re young, you must not know anything. So all the work you’ve done irrelevant. And like

Ryan: you just mentioned signals about what the future is looking like. They’re much more foggy when you’re in that place. Like someone else is saying it.

Terry: Yeah, that’s right and this is where I was talking to lucky Smith who we’re hoping to have on shortly. And, you know, he’s become a little bit of an unofficial mentor to me. And when we got to talking about the transition from, employment to business, and he was mentioning that when you’re in employment, you don’t have many signals of uncertainty.

You’ve only got the day that you have the job on the day that you leave the job and you can either leave by choice. So you can leave because you’ve got told to leave. And those two things are so far apart, that just seems like a kind of a straight line. So it seems smoother, which means it’s safer in your mind.

But in actual fact, it’s not necessarily because like you said before, your income’s tied to one source and that can all change very, very quickly. Whereas in business is signals of uncertainty. Uh, daily you’ll lose a customer, you gain a customer, you’ve got a big bill, come in. All these things happen all the time. And so it feels like in business it’s more risky, but an actual fact, if you’re doing it, rot, your risk is mitigated more over time. Because you get better at it, but also because you got more.

Ryan: Yeah so like when you’re in business, the signal is smacking you in the face. Basically it’s a Relic toaster in emotions that you get better at your resilience grows. Whereas when you’re on a salary, often that signal it does get through. And if you’ve got a good business now as well, good business sense, then you’ll be seeking out and finding those signals. No doubt. Otherwise they come at a delay and that’s actually riskier because you can’t say the moves that are kind of unfolding before you.

Terry: Yeah. Well, that’s saying smooth seas never made a skillful sailor in all areas of life. You get paid for volatility. If you can deal with the volatility and this is what I’m talking about with lucky, and maybe we can go into it and I’m hoping to get him on the podcast. As I said, in all areas of life, if you can deal with uncertainty, you get paid a premium for it, and you get better with dealing with it over time. stock market, you got volatility and that’s why you get higher return. Same with your human capital.

Ryan: All right. So any other ones, why? I think why people don’t choose business as a vehicle for wealth?

Terry: Yeah. I think it’s a bit of an old school mentality, but the idea that it’s going to cost you a lot of money or it needs to cost you a lot of money. So it’s like, they go big, old are home fallacy. I’ve got to do it all at once and I’ve got to have it all. Now. You really don’t. You just have to find a customer. That’s what you are today. And this is where I was saying I was having this conversation with someone a week or so ago, and now we’re kind of talking about how they wanted to get out and wanting to go into business and things.

And I said, oh, what? I wouldn’t guarantees that you save a whole bunch of money and use that as a safety. It’s good to have money as a safety net, but it’s actually not going to change your situation. What you need to build is the confidence or the evidence that you are already serving people and solving their problems and getting paid for it.

So my time and attention will be spent finding a customer and serving them before I went out, need anything. And if I already knew, look, I’ve got five, 10 customers, and I’m already making money outside of my job. Now you’ve already validated. You’re a business. You just got to become a bigger business. I think your time is better spent doing that and it doesn’t cost money to do that.

 It costs your time. And this is what it goes back to being selfless. Again, are you willing enough to be selfless and give and give of yourself and give of what you have to people first? Cause we talk about this all the time, right? There’s no growth without investment. So you’ve got to provide an emotionally investment first. And if you’re not willing to do that work, it’s not gonna work for you in business. So don’t do it. Every one of these podcasts is an emotional investment and we pay for that over time. We don’t know when we don’t know how it’s almost like a of now.

Ryan: And like I mentioned before, if there is a big upfront cost for the venture that you’re looking at or considering there’s probably a different way is probably a means of actually serving those people with a different business model, different way of structuring it. And serving them still to the same effect that you could have beforehand with the upfront cost is always a different way basically to serve that person and get the same outcome.

Terry: And if you want proof, some of the biggest businesses in the world, now, your Airbnbs zooms, a lot of these big startups that we kind of looking at.

Now, a lot of them started with this lean philosophy and it’s called the lean startup. So read the book of the lean startup, and it’ll convince you that the way to build a bigger business is to validate it first with customers. And then basically find more of the same people in Get more sophisticated over time.

So you can go the other way, make this big financial investment, but you don’t have a customer you’re behind the business that has no where near the same money, but a customer. It doesn’t have to cost money at all. What’s the minimum investment you can make to serve that one person and get that information and build that confidence.

That’s really all you gotta do. We said before with technology so much easier to find them so much easier to have them find you and start a conversation and just learn it doesn’t have to cost next to nothing. I dunno. I like it’s. So it’s next to free. I think financially, anyway,

Ryan: you mentioned a racial say any other major resources you can think of. That’s what we’re talking about. Four hour workweek, Tim Ferriss. I know that had a pretty big impact on me. I can’t completely remember the contents,

Terry: I think, is that because of the systemization part of it, you’re like, this is sick 80 20 rule. Oh yeah. Yeah. He’s out. I think about systemizing yourself and,

Ryan: and you’ve just re-read this, and I know it sparks something in you. What is it?

Terry: It was just exactly what we’re talking about earlier. I like let the title so gimmicky, but it works and it’s true. Like this, Tim Ferris did do it. He did build a business that he basically worked in for four hours in the week. You know, that’s not going to be sustainable, but you can do that.

And I think the biggest thing I got was exactly what we said before. If you redesign the way that you’re earning money, you don’t need a lot. You don’t need a heap of it now to enjoy the life that you wanted from heaps of money. Anyway, that’s the biggest point that I got from that book. I didn’t even realize this, but you know, since the time that I’ve read that book, it’s, I’ve been slowly working my way towards that state is what I said before.

That’s one of our goals. I want to be able to pick up and go for three, six months, go for a trip around Australia and see some sites with the kids and have that not affect anything that’s wealth.

Ryan: And I think that’s the power of something like that. The power of an idea of hopefully like the outcome of this podcast to somebody as well is you look back in five times and for some reason, this podcast has changed the way you think about how you want to deliver yourself to the world, how you want to make a contribution.

And there’s this slow transition that’s kind of happening for you over that time. And eventually you look back and you can connect the dots quite easily to say, all right, that actually changed the path to me a little bit. And now this is what that means for me. I’ve got this level of wealth and how I spend my time and all of those things fast, sooner than I actually have reached financial independence, but I’m still on the same track. I haven’t gone backwards. maybe I haven’t even sped up or maybe I’ll have massively gotten the fast lane, right.

Terry: Financially my decision to leave sport, I’d probably be 200 grand worse off because of it in terms of a purely financial sense money in the market. But in terms of the way I own the money and what I get from the money in I head, if that makes sense.

Ryan: Yeah.

Terry: When we really come back to what’s the whole thing about time, control, mastery, all those things and wealthier, but we talk about money in the bank money to your name, worse off, but trajectory is completely deferred. So if I look at rate of growth and I look at how fast the growth is happening, and I look at what the potential is, my potential now is completely different. My potential they’re very predictable, pretty much ends in the same place. Yeah. I know exactly where I was going to end up there. Whereas now there actually isn’t a limit.

Ryan: That is an important insight because we see millionaires, rotten. We have to pay, we work with the millionaires that aren’t wealthy. And then we see people that are not millionaires that are wealthy.

I’d put ourselves in those categories as well. I wouldn’t say we’re millionaires no way, but we have a level of wealth in just the way we own our income, the sense of satisfaction and fulfillment that we get from our work that makes us feel wealthy.

Terry: Well, Robert Kiyosaki said it best.Wealth is measured in time. Riches measured in dollars. And so if you think of it like me, especially the full time set, you think what’s the purpose of the money? Go straight to the purpose, get the purpose. Now that’s the whole point don’t be fooled or don’t mistake. The means for the end, keeping your focus on the end and how you achieve the end is irrelevant. You know, I don’t care if I’ve got half the money, if someone else does it, if I’ve got more of what I believe to be wealth irrelevant to me, that’s why I think a lot of this publishing of net worth and all that sort of stuff, I think it’s the wrong measure. And the only reason I say that is because of exactly what you just said.

We’ve seen it. We’ve seen the other side of the coin. I know multimillionaires who are less wealthy than me. They have less of those choices. That apparently money was supposed to buy. So yeah, like I said, don’t mistake the mainstream.

Ryan: Yeah. It’s not about a metric. Is that it’s just this internal scoreboard basically that you need to be aware of that you need to be able to consider alternate means of creating it. Because right now it is just, society says, when you’ve got that, then you’ll feel this, but you can feel that much sooner. You don’t have to do all these things, sacrifice yourself in all these ways to get to this place and hope. Get there sooner.

Terry: Yeah, exactly. We talk about money mapping for the same thing. Like cultivate the feeling first and you end up with a result, like it’s the same kind of shortcut cheat code. Yeah. Feel wealthy first to become well.

Ryan: Yeah. Good. All right, man. Let’s probably just quickly summarize what we’ve talked about.

Terry: Let’s do it. Yeah. If you want to get on the financial FOSS track, have a think about business as an opportunity or an avenue for achieving what you want from wealth. It’s very available to you. It’s almost free. It’s very cheap. It’s easy. Anybody can do it. He has opportunities available to us that have not been available ever. And the world’s your oyster. And basically if you want more meaning from your work, if you want uncapped income, if you want more creativity and you want more recognition in what you do, I have a look at business because it is awesome.

Ryan: And I think like the most important mental model from this episode is really just investing in the human capital, learn how to keep and manage money, build a business around his signature strengths and action biases, and then convert more surplus into your investment. Yeah. And just walking

Terry: through front lies of loft all through that, as you go and you’ll turn around and you’ll be all of a sudden materially wealthy, but spiritually we’ll got there along the way.

Ryan: Yeah. Good stuff, right? Yeah. And if you want to actually engage in this conversation with us, if you’ve really enjoyed hearing about it from this angle, and it’s something that you actually quite interested in, then jump into our circle community as well. I believe there would’ve been a nudge there halfway through this episode,

Terry: they probably would have been. Yeah, but like, have we mentioned this a lot in the community, but if you’re interested in chatting to us and sort of doing Q and I’s and debriefing episodes, then we do these live with the guys in our community when they want it. So this is an episode we would love to talk about. So if it’s something you want to discuss and you want to get into a room with other people and sort of figure it out there, then yeah. Then click on that link and the Charlotte’s joined that circle community, and that’s the best way to do it.

Ryan: So hope you guys have really enjoyed this episode. I know I have, I enjoy talking about business and how we make that contribution and increase our income. How have you found it? Yeah,

Terry: I love this topic. It’s a little bit of a dice. This nerd.

Ryan: We probably do talk about it. Most of is, I suppose. That’s it?

Terry: It is. Yeah. So coming up, like I said, we’re going to bring on a couple of guests for you that are a little bit ahead of us in business. People that we look up to, people that have got different perspectives that we can learn from. And then when I sort of come back together, regroup and talk about what we learned from the process, and maybe add a bit more about 2 cents after that.

Ryan:  Love it. All right guys. See you soon.

Terry: Hi. If you’ve listened this far, you’re a rare breed. See, most people won’t do the work to change their money story, but not you.

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