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#57 Charley Valher | How to achieve financial freedom by harnessing ‘The Power of 5’

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Making money as an entrepreneur is different to earning it as an employee. In this episode, Terry chats with Charlie Vahler. Charlie is a high school dropout who completed an apprenticeship as a plumber before realising he wanted to be in business.  And his journey has made him financially independent by age 33. In this chat, he decodes the process he took to pinpoint the most important factors in his success. If you’re in business or want to be, this episode is as inspiring as it is instructional. 

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Terry: Welcome to legend. It’s Terry here to share another conversation with a special guest. In episode 55, we talked about the difference between earning versus making money. And I mentioned it that we’d follow that up with an exemplar for each of these parts. Obviously last episode, we had Chris FOSS on and he shared his wisdom around negotiating.

And in this episode, I want to introduce you to Charlie valor. Charlie is the founder of Viola media and a fantastic example of how to use the vehicle of business to make money and build real wealth. In this chat, he shares his journey from high school dropout to apprentice, plumber, and financially independent by 33 years old. His story is as inspiring as it is instructional because we decode the journey, looking backward to pinpoint the most important factors in his success.

And Charlie talks in depth about something. He calls the power of five for rewiring your belief to change your results. Charlie’s an epic example of one of those people who is sitting in a prime position to capitalize on the uncertainty and the volatility we’re seeing in markets and economies and that’s because he has such strong earning power and fantastic cashflow to the point where he can make very bold bets. Without getting completely burned. So if you’re in business and you’re looking for some direction and some inspiration around how you can make more money.

Then this is the episode for you. A quick note too, before we get into this at the end of this episode, Charlie references his podcast, but since we recorded this, he’s actually changed the name. His podcast is now called full stack business owner. And if you are in business and you’re looking for information relevant for building wealth, I would highly recommend it. All right. That’s enough for me. Let’s jump into the episode. I hope you enjoy.

Charlie mate. Thank you for coming on the show.

Charley: Oh, my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Terry: Nah, it’s great to have here, mate. It’s also really good to meet you. It’s funny. Sometimes you meet somebody and you kind of have conversations with them. And sometimes there’s like third party conversations where people are talking about the both of you together. That’s probably how I describe our relationship.

People mentioning your name and my name together and saying, you guys shouldn’t meet each other. is that the same for you?

Charley: Absolutely. And I must say I’ve in more recent times, especially in the wake of the last few years, I’ve developed so many good relationships online through that. It’s been really unique, but it’s. Nice to meet people online these days, a lot of good people out.

Terry: definitely. Definitely. And mate, the reason I wanted to get you on the show is because I’ve been watching and kind of commenting and we’ve been talking around. This concept of fire and you’re in some of those financial independence groups as well as I am. And, I love some of the posts.

You put up some of the comments you dropped in there as well, because it really does challenge people to think outside their box. And what’s great to know is that you’re coming from a place where you’re saying, well, this is what I’ve done. This is what I’ve actually achieved. And I’ve even noticed comments that you’ve made there where you’ve said.

Listen guys, I’ve achieved this. This is what I’ve learned. Let me know if you want any help. and it’s bizarre to me that more people don’t actually take you up on that. So tell us a little bit about where you’re at right now in terms of your financial independence journey. And then we might delve into how we got there.

Charley: Yeah, absolutely. Mentioned one thing there. I was very fortunate to have some fantastic mentors early on in my career. And I’m sure we’ll talk about that as well. And one of the things they really brought into the conversation often was that once you achieve something, it’s your obligation to pass it on, It’s like, it’s not a zero sum game. We’re gonna teach you, but then at a point when you’ve done something special, just remember that there’s other people to pass it on too. So a big part of why I go in those groups, even though it’s hugely controversial. And often I get myself in a little bit of trouble is because I want people to have that.

I want people to be able to partake in some of the things I’ve achieved and have today. So where am I at today? I guess the common new trendy word for this is. Is one of those things from there really, it just means I’ve gotten myself to a financial point where I’m financially independent or financially secure.

So to be more, I suppose, direct on that is that I don’t have to go to work tomorrow or ever again. And my life would be in well in good shape.

Terry: And how long has it taking you to get there?

Charley: Yeah, that’s a really good question. Look, I’m 33 years old today, so we’ll go with, it’s taken 33 years, but the probably intentfully I’ve been looking to get for this, to this stage for about eight to 10 years now.

Terry: Yeah. Perfect. what I’d love to do is kind of rewind go right back to the start here, because I think you and I were chatting just before this, you’ve got a really interesting journey that I think it could prove really instructive and even inspiring for a lot of people in terms of where you started and how you’ve got to this position right now, because you talked about it for sort of eight to 10 years.

Right. But these are not linear years. Some of these years are actually gonna be. much more abundant than others. Correct.

Charley: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I’ll dive into it, then I’ll go straight to it. So I say this in the nicest possible way, but I’m a happy high school dropout. School was just not something that really appealed to me at the time I dropped out of school in year 11 and then I went into an apprenticeship and then became a plumber.

So I went into the trade. The reason I got into the trade or wanted to be into the trade. And this sounds so horribly VA. Is that my father had a friend who had a absolutely amazing house smoking hot wife. And when I looked at what he did, he was a plumber. I’m like, I’m doing that.

Terry: Yeah, right.

Charley: so I looked at it and just saw someone I’m like, I like what they’ve got and done. If I wanna have something similar, this is a path I’m gonna pursue. And I really didn’t overthink it by more than that.

Terry: That’s interesting. Cuz one of the impressions I’ve gotten from you and we can get into this a little bit more later is that is kind of how you learn, right? You say, look and do that’s something that I’ve got from you from just even the limited conversations that we’ve had is that.

That’s how you’ve kind of course corrected your way through this. So obviously this was the first step in that journey. Tell us a bit about what that was like. So you made that decision and then you jump into the career and you get into it. Did you love it or was it kind of a way to make some money in the beginning?

Charley: Do you know what the first few years of it, the best way I can describe it if you’ve ever been in sport, which I know you have is that my plumbing apprenticeship, part of it was almost like being on the footy team or the basketball team. It was a bit of a boys club was a lot of fun. And then we also got a lot of work done.

So I looked at that experience probably one of the best experiences of my life, because I’d gone from like a school environ. Where it’s like, I suppose you get told what to do kind. To where we would go into this place where it was like more about skill development, learning how to work hard, actually finishing something for the day, being profitable for the company, going through the ups and downs of my boss’s business busy times and quiet times.

So it was very character developing. I was quite young as well. So I dropped outta school at 16, nearly 17. And then I’m in this environment where most people are at 25 and 30 and. That effect on its own of hanging around people that are kind of further along in life. I grew up quicker than all my friends dramatically by doing that as well.

I loved the apprenticeship. And I’ll say that again. I think it’s a great thing. to do a trade, you will learn a lot about it, not just the trade itself. So that part was really good. The later parts of it though, were quite challenging. So going from completing an apprenticeship and getting the required training and skills and license.

That was all good, but when it came time to actually like developing a business around that or earning past the money I was on, when I was in that job, that was a bit more challenging. And for reasons it becomes apparent after this, I got out of it.

Terry: Yes. What is challenging about sort of making that next jump?

Charley: Yeah. So there’s a couple of things. One is that if you are in the trade, like quite commonly, there is a bad cash flow cycle. So what will happen is you’ll go and do a job and then you won’t get paid for about 90. Is pretty common in the industry work. I did so doing work and not getting paid for 90 days when you’re 20 and not really got much behind you very, very difficult to do and to make matters a bit more challenging is that the parts that go with it or the materials you buy also can be quite expensive and you’ve gotta have insurances and a whole bunch of stuff, which makes that a harder business to get off the ground.

Than’s perceived. So you’ll hear often that, like our plumbers, they make a fortune. I often laugh when I hear that because people say that quite commonly not understanding the deeper mechanics of like, oh actually, no, it’s not as good as you would think it is. And I’m sure there’s some that do well, don’t get me wrong, but in the way I was going about it, I could see that I wasn’t necessarily gonna get the results from that career path that I’d intended.

Terry: Yeah. Interesting point, like there is a fair bit of capital outlay before you start actually making your return. And then if you’re not managing that cash flow really effectively, very hard to be profitable. Is that kind of what you’re saying?

Charley: Completely. And I was unskilled at this time as well, flying by the seat of my pants. I was more interested than going to the pub on a Friday night and hanging out with my friends on the weekend than I was really doing learning business skills at this point.

Terry: man, I think we all were at that stage. Let’s be honest.

Charley: That was a fun stage.

Terry: Yeah, absolutely. And I reckon you gotta enjoy it, but you talked a little bit about the character about that developed before you, but what are sort of the meta skills that you learnt there that you find yourself drawing on still now today?

Charley: Yeah. So there’s this interesting thing. And I’ll talk about the difference between like school and plumbing, cuz that was the biggest differential for me. It’s like when you’re at school, you kind of go home when the bowel goes, so school finish, you go home where you go into this environment where you’re a plumber, you go home when the work’s done.

 Suddenly you are really motivated to get the work done instead of the day finish. So it’s like a complete dynamic shift in like how you think about the day. And then in the type of planning I was doing is like, you could go in a job and like take out a part of a wall, for example, to fix something in the wall, like who knows what’s in there.

So problem solving. So when you bring these two things together, if you are someone that’s very determined to finish the work so you can get home at a reasonable time. And then on the other side of it continually trying to work things out on the fly because there’s endless problems that are gonna come up, that there’s no instruction manual for.

You don’t know what’s gonna be in that wall. So those two things I still use every day. And I think that type of thinking is something that’s immensely, powerful skill to have across anything you do in life. That a lot of people that maybe go into different settings don’t get, and then it shows later in life.

Terry: The. I really wanna, dig into there is the first one being productive. I’ve seen this myself too. Like, this is me planning my whole day. Like I’ve you just learn that like every unit of time , you’ve got to make it productive. So talk to me a little bit more about that because there’s two parts.

I think that are fantastic for, an apprenticeship, not in plumbing, but in entrepreneurship, the productivity side of things, and then the problem solving. when you think about the productivity side of things, like I don’t go home until the work’s done. How does that specifically help you today?

Charley: that’s a really good question in itself I think when you spend a duration of time, This whole apprenticeship for me, where that’s the way you live, it just becomes your default operating. I don’t really notice that I’m doing it until My wife for example, will see what I’m getting up to.

And she’s like, oh, you always have to be making everything the most productive. She goes, look, you make your cup of coffee. Like you are racing. And I go, I am, and I go, cuz champions make their coffee. Like it’s the Olympics. so she goes like, and I will often do things the same way. So if I was to make a sandwich every day, for example, I would make that in the same order just to be as efficient as possible.

So it becomes wide into, and I think when I made the jump from that world into having my own business, it was just a natural byproduct. So I think that’s a huge thing is like that habitual forming of like, this is how you do things makes a difference. So in the plumbing side of things is like if I got to work and it was the middle of winter and I knew the weather was gonna be bad and the rain was coming.

Sure enough, I’m sitting there going, we gotta be done by one o’clock. And suddenly it’s like, well, I don’t need lunch till one O after one o’clock I’m gonna go to the jobs in the order. That’s the closest, I’m gonna make sure that I’ve got the materials that I need. you suddenly become really resourceful at not ending up being in the trench in three o’clock in the afternoon while it’s raining.

And it’s like that type of experience I think can relate into any career in life, down the road, but can be immensely powerful to have that experience young in those formative years.

Terry: It’s ironic too. Isn’t it like a lack of resource? Almost always promotes resourcefulness. Not an overabundance of resource. I learned that the hard actually like leaving my career is like I had too many resources and I honestly, just my first six months, I was just kind of lazy. Like it was just, I wasn’t productive in that way.

So I think as a mindset, that’s something that I’ve to learn. I really do appreciate how that could and is super important for making that jump. But let’s kind of shift gears here for a second. So you talked before about how you kind of realize it’s at a certain point in time that plumbing wasn’t gonna be it for you.

Was that a harsh realization for you, knowing that you were gonna have to make a change, you built this one identity, you built a whole sort of set of skills, and now you are almost know, you’re comfortable. You’re competent in this area and now you’ve made the decision and it’s probably happened over a period of time, but there’s a moment where it clicks.

Was it uncomfortable for you to accept that I’m gonna have to make a big change?

Charley: Hugely. So I could go on about this. I actually felt robbed and cheated. Like I will openly say that my mindset then what, isn’t, what it is today where I, felt I’d really been lied. I’d done this apprenticeship the whole way through your apprenticeship. You’re kind of told by people, oh, to be worth it right at the end of it.

Have you heard about all this money? Plumbings are making stick with it. I’m like, okay. All right. And then I get to this point and I’m like, where’s the money?

Terry: Really

Charley: Like looking for it. I’m like, there’s no money here. Like what are we talking about? And to make matters worse, what kind of triggered this for.

Is I met a girl who’s now my wife today life partner, Bianca, and like I’m sitting there. And we are looking at houses and of course Australian property is an interesting thing, but I’m doing this math. So I’m going, this is the house I want for my wife and for my family. This is what I make. And I’m like, these don’t match.

Terry: Yeah.

Charley: Like this doesn’t add up. It’s like even being skilled at what I was doing the time and I was making a, you gotta remember, this is probably about 10 years ago now. Like I was making about $1,500 a week, take home, which for a 22 year old was phenomenal at the time. And I’m looking at it and I’m going okay.

But the cost of my car like I needed a work, you to get things around. And then I’m looking at the fuel, cuz you drive around a lot as a plumber and I’m looking at like insurance, health, insurance food, you eat a lot when you’re a plumber, like you’re always moving and eating and I’m like looking at this leftover and I’m like the leftover on this.

Doesn’t get me enough to go over there. And at first I was like, well, I’ll just do more cashes and I’ll work harder. And I’ll figure out ways. And I’m sitting there and like this one day coming on, like this math just doesn’t work. You’re never gonna get to the place you want to get to.

If you pursue this. And again, cheated lied to robbed. I couldn’t have been more of a victim if I tried. I really couldn’t. And eventually in the motivation from my wife, like I’m looking at my wife and I’m like being this victim, isn’t gonna get this done. I just have to accept. Well, you’ve made a wrong.

You’ve learned a lot from this it’s time to take a new direction and put some intent into doing something that can achieve something special. And I’ll share something now, which comes true, like later on. I’ve always wanted kids always and I’m looking at this and go, well, when I have a kid, what I really want is the ability for my wife to not have to work if she doesn’t want.

So if my wife wants to raise our children, I don’t want her to be forced into a situation where she has to go and we have to do the childcare thing. Now, if she wants to work different story, no problem go for it, chase your dreams. But if she doesn’t want to, I don’t wanna be trapped in that environment.

Now I’m very thrilled to say that, like we have a two year old now and like, we’re getting to enjoy that where my partner doesn’t have to work or nor does she choose to at this point. And we get to spend a lot of beautiful time with our son, but it’s like at that point there. That was what was really motivating me that if I don’t do this, we’re never gonna get the opportunity to do that.

So I was like, I had fear of missing out on a future. I was like, this is the thing that was really like, hugely motivating for me to get out the way of my own bullshit. Right. That was the big trigger at that point.

Terry: That’s really interesting. And what I’m interested in is the shift from your victim mindset into the problem solving. Now, I now got to solve the problem, right? Correct me here if I’m wrong, but as soon as you took the focus off yourself, what you wanted and what was happening to you and you put it onto what you wanted for others, and then you could become more proactive and product.

Would that be fair?

Charley: It’s definitely fair in hindsight, but I would say that in the moment, it was very hard for me to navigate that. it always feels easy to blame someone else. It was just by chance. And this is like timing and luck and all the rest of it plays a role here. A friend gave me a CD, It was like a Tony Robb CD or a personal development CD. And I was listening to it. And went on about this thing continually about like, it’s the power of five. The five people you hang out with are gonna define everything.

Terry: Yes.

Charley: you will become the five people you hang out with the most. So whatever their health is, that’ll be your health, whatever their wealth is, that’ll be your wealth and whatever money they make, that’s the money you’re gonna make. basically, it’s gonna define a lot of the things.

 the people I was spending the most time with, I didn’t want their life. It was like the plumbers I, when I really looked at it and was this moment, I was like a lot of plumbers like these old miserable guys, and I’m. I don’t want that like a bit grumpy bit grumpy. So that was a real pivotal turning point in my life where I was like, I gotta pick my new five.

And that was where the journey kind of started of going well the people that have the result, I want have businesses, So they’ve got the time money, freedom thing nailed. So I need to find the business owners that have done the thing I’m trying to do and just do.

Terry: And talk me through that process. Was that very conscious and deliberate saying I’m going to find this type of person or was it more of an organic process that where was this kind of a realization and you find yourself over the course of the next 12 to 18 months, finding a new tribe to sort of.

Charley: Yeah. So as you can imagine, high school dropout, that’s a plumber, right? You can imagine my computer skills are off the charts. So it’s like I get on the internet. I’m like, right for anyone who’s seeing this video, you type, and basically you just use your two point of fingers and to how to

Terry: The hunt and peck haha

Charley: business And that’s literally where I was, is like, I just went into this deep research stage. Now, one of the advantages of being a plumber is you get to. A fair amount. I was like driving a fair bit. So I started listening to podcasts And there was a few out at the time that were talking about this online business thing.

And I was listening to these stories of people and like starting to develop an understanding of what could be done. And then I would come home and like start researching and going down these things and try and like, could I do this? Or could I do that? And like it was probably about six months of like discovery.

Working out if different options and trying to find people who had done it. And then I would buy courses and meet the people in the courses and buy books and try and work all this stuff out. And it was a really fun time. Like it was an exciting time because my, view of what was possible in the world, like just shifted, in a huge way.

Terry: In what way would you say, like, was it your beliefs changed or was it your knowledge? I was in an environment where we’re all working really hard. Like plumbers work hard in the environment. I was in putting in the hours, no one’s really lazy a very work full environment. And then on the other side, on the weekends, I’m meeting kids and I say kids, cuz they were like 20 years old, like younger than me who were making a hundred grand a month drop shipping supplements on the internet.

Charley: And they would like cruise over to their sports car during a Tuesday or I’d see photos of them. And I’m like, what. it bent my belief system. and the proof of it changed it all for me.

And this was a really huge thing for me is it was really easy for me to come up with ideas, why something couldn’t work. And then it was like, when you see someone that’s done it, it’s like, Maybe that’s not true. And I found myself working into this and I was very fortunate to find a really good mentor at that time.

I found someone in Melbourne who was doing some really big things and they took me under their wing and reshaped me in very different way about what was possible

Terry: Yeah, it’s a power of community. We say that all the time as well. It’s like, you. Find a way to get into a community where people are doing those things that you don’t think you can do. it just levels you up and I wanna say those words again.

You said it bend your belief system and I reckon that’s the insight, isn’t it. You need to bend your belief

Charley: Oh, break it absolutely break it. the things that you are holding true are likely the things holding you.

Terry: Yeah. I love. the results you have right now are based on all the decisions informed by those beliefs, change the beliefs, change your decisions, get a different result.

Charley: completely.

Terry: talk me through next steps. So this was a six month learning phase. Yeah. And you are kind of gathering information, changing your belief systems. What was this first kind of tentative step out into this new world? Was it tentative step or was itall right? I’m doing it now.

Charley: had made the decision that I was gonna do something, but I wanted to stay employed while I did it. So I was like, all right, I’m not gonna completely quit my job and go into this world because like, I didn’t have much confidence in myself at this point. I could see other people were doing it, but could I do it it’s possible, but is it possible for me?

 So I decided to look at the options and the one that I liked and this it’s so funny how I picked this is I was like, this is the time when like eBay is the thing eBay’s knew. Everyone’s selling things on eBay. I was like, you know what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna sell things on eBay because that’s something I can do at night.

Like I don’t need an office or be in places or meet people during the day. I’m just gonna use the money I make from plumbing, buy things, sell it on E. It was a very simple idea. And I’m like, all I gotta do is just sell things for more than I buy them for. And I’ll be okay. it seemed very simple.

And as a plumber, like I could wrap my head around this and I did. And what happened in that experience for probably about six months in all honesty is, as I went into this world, like the first three months I was terrible. Terrible.

Absolutely terrible. But then what used to happen is if you had the eBay app on your phone, when you sold something, it made us sound like a cash register. I was sitting there and that sound went off. Then it was real, then it wasn’t just possible. It was possible for me. And then from there it was just like full steam ahead.

as much money I can make in plumbing. I’m throwing into this so that eventually I can get to a place where I can make the jump I’m gonna make this jump. I did.

Terry: Before we get into that jump, I just want to quickly sort of decode what you did there to build confidence. Right? Cause I. It’s probably counterintuitive for a lot of people, you could easily just build more confidence by going to more networking events and talking to more people that might be what you think you’re doing, but you didn’t do that.

You started and you were like, well, I just need to figure out if I can do this for me. So what is the easiest way for me to get started and get some results? Like get some evidence. What do you think drove you to do it that way? Because I don’t think people do that. They just get stuck in that sort of information

Charley: would say, this is a byproduct of the apprenticeship. and there’s two types of people in this world. There’s people that get an Ikea product and use the instructions and those that do not . I am the do not category

Terry: yes.

Charley: But the point being is I would get new basin or tapware set to come out and you just have to work out how to put it together. you didn’t get to go home till it’s installed. Not till you read the instructions. So I was looking at this and I wanted to touch it cuz I felt well, if I’m doing these courses and doing it, that’s the cement for actually getting better at something is like you are crystallizing the things you are learning into, like your hands, know how to make the motions. And that was a big thing

Terry: Yeah, it’s almost like what result do I need to see to believe it’s true for me? do anything you can to get that result. Cause that’s kind of your, Kickstarter. Isn’t it.

Charley: It’s been a good, guiding force in my life in all honesty. to the point, the other thing is that I was hugely motivated is that at this point in my life, like I’m getting up at 5:00 AM going to work as a plumber, finishing work, starting my eBay business into the night and just doing that every day and going hard on weekends all the time, walking past my wife.

and going still can’t afford that house. Keep going where are the options we want in life? Like it’s not gonna happen from buying another course. I was very much pushing my self to take more action.

Terry: Yeah. something, I think that you just inadvertently touched on, there is the two components that are necessary. You’ve got to have the will to want to do it, but you’ve also got to believe that you can do it and you can’t believe that you can do it without any evidence.

Pairing those two things together is, what makes the difference. I think between someone who doesn’t make that jump and doesn’t keep moving in that direction, talk us through now what that sort of next phase looked like. So you had that initial result now you’re starting to build some belief in confidence.Was it a very smooth transition from there to I’m leaving and doing this full time? Or was it of a bumpy journey? 

Charley: So once a few sails started rolling on eBay, I mean that part actually went relatively smoothly. I was fortunate enough to have built up a lot of like holidays and long service leave and all kinds of things where I had some ability to take some time off, to take things more seriously over here.

But then on the other side of things is that the proof was grow. The proof was growing in a big way where like my eBay sales volume at this time was just like cranking every week on week. And I was like, all right, it’s time to do this. So the jump initially went really well where I fell into my like, we’ll call the first challenge, cuz there’s plenty of challenges along the way for everyone is things got too big for me to be able to handle.

Before, you know it my wife is now the packing and sending girl , my house is full of stuff everywhere. And I’m running a logistics company going what? I thought I had an eBay business. What do you mean logistics? And it got outta hand to the point, whereas like I was weighing over my head, realized that the beautiful thing about the apprenticeship model is having someone to go to when you’ve made a huge mistake and go, oh, whoops.

Uh, how do I fix this to suddenly realizing that doesn’t exist? So, Having to work my way through things, being the full, like backstop it’s all on me and learning, I suppose what we’ll call the foundations of some business skills. So that was a hugely challenging experience.

 Learned a lot from it though, but then along the way had worked out that, Hey, I’m starting to get pretty good at this internet marketing thing, a suck logistics. Like I’m terrible at it, but I’m getting quite good at selling things on the internet and then decided to learn from it. Reshape what I was doing and then go into having an internet marketing agency. And that’s where I really started to shine and see some of my success online.

Terry: Yeah, that’s interesting Not actually needing to know that the first thing is going to be the thing, just accepting that you’re just moving in that direction and you’re gonna get closer and closer based on the experiences you have and what you’ll learn from those experiences and challenges.

What do you think made you comfortable with that chaos? Cause I think, we’re all conditioned. We go through a school system where you need to have the. you already have to have the answer and you have to know everything. But what you’ve just described to me is where you’re saying I’m gonna step out there into the wilderness and I don’t even know what’s in there, but I know that that’s the direction I need to head in.

What do you think made you in particular comfortable with that level of chaos, where you are like, we’re gonna have a crack at this and things get too big and get outta hand. I’ll figure it

Charley: Again, it’s like I must admit there was numerous times where I’d get on seek and look for jobs for plumbers.

Terry: Yeah.

Charley: So I, I admit that I’m happy to admit that I had always said that it’s like, if it doesn’t work out, I’m young, I’ll just start again. But I can not try anything and fail through, not trying.

Or I can try something at least work out if it’s gonna work or not and prove it. And then if it doesn’t work out, I’ll just go do the thing that I could have done anyway. There’s really no immense risk here. So as I kept going through that, It’s funny how I gave myself this invisible rule.

I’m like, just until you’re 30 swing for the fence, right. It’s not too late to start again. A 30. Now in reality, it’s probably not too late to start again if you’re 40, but it’s like for me at that time I had given myself the permission to like just work it out. Right. And I was listening to these podcasts and I’d hear these stories.

And I was like I’m not the first one to crash a business. It’s apparently pretty common. these people still exist. They redo things, you learn things along the way. I was continually developing myself and was like, this is just a game of reiteration. as long as I can keep that attitude and keep moving forward, why not?

And I had also at this point set like a, reserve amount of capital. So I had like an emergency fund in a bank account and I’m like, if it gets to this level, you’re done. that’s where the line is, which we never got to that level, clearly, cuz we’re still kicking along here. But at the point there, that’s kind of what my thinking was.

Terry: That’s cool. And when you started moving towards that direction of like, alright away from logistics away from this kind of business model towards more of a internet marketing and, understanding that about yourself, what was the first stepsyou took in that direction?

Charley: Yeah. So much the same as previous answers is I started to hang out with people that were becoming really successful at this. So I was looking to what they were doing and learning as much as I could trying things myself, and then starting to grow real business. This is the point where had to hire people. my first marketing agency ended up, I had 15 staff. Never managed people before, and like started developing all these different skills and like learning about finance now. My wife, she was actually an accountant and was the bookkeeper.

So I was very lucky that I had someone where I’m like, cool. I make money every month. And then at the end of it, how much do I get to. And in really, really simple terms. And she very generally started explaining these things to me and working through what the, tax system is. And you gotta have HR and all these things.

And like, she was a really big help in the journey as well. So it was like, that was very fortunate. So that was really the phase where I developed not only like internet marketing skills, but also business skills, like how to run a business properly.

Terry: And how was she kind of relating to you along this journey? Right. So you mentioned the early day, she sounds like she’s quite supportive, right? Cuz you were selling stuff on eBay. She’s a logistics person kind of helping along. So it sounds like you had a lot of support from her, from the

Charley: Absolutely. At numerous points in the journey, many people, family members, the works would’ve looked at me and said, you’re crazy. You’re a qualified plumber. You’ve got all these licenses like it’s a license to print money. Why are you selling things on eBay? to be fair, I had doubts as well, but she was certainly always in my corner being encouraging, saying that it’s easy for them to judge.

They haven’t done it. from our side of things, I was like, well, we can only guarantee we won’t do it by, sorry. We won’t get it by not trying. we felt comfortable with where we.

Terry: Yeah. And what do you think allowed you to, separate yourself from those other people’s opinions? Obviously you had a sense that you could do this for yourself And you had support from your wife, but you had all these other people around you as well.

that are either directly or indirectly expressing their doubt and potentially chipping away that confidence. What do you think was important for you to be able to shield yourself

from that and just focus on what you were doing? This is gonna sound so horrible. I started making more money than him. it’s funny that all my doubt disappeared the day I realized that was true, that I was seeing more success in my life and that what I was doing was working now, I dislike that money was the measuring stick here.

Charley: Like money is an interesting topic in itself, but for me, when that started to happen, my confidence just appeared. It’s like, well, it is working. Here’s the proof. you can look at your finances, you can look at these things. Like why would you go back to being a plumber? You’re looking at the pay cut.

You would have to take to that, doesn’t logically make sense.

Terry: yep. Nope. I like that. I think. Brutally true. And the focus on results. That’s probably what I’m getting from that is like, just focus on your results, focus on what you’re doing and, pay attention first and foremost to that.

Charley: Yeah, hugely. So like look for a source of truth, right? cut through the noise, cuz there’s a ton of opinions out there that are meaning well, especially from people who care about you, they just want you to be safe. But at the end of the days, like safety won’t get phenomenal results. If that’s something you want.

Terry: Yeah, that’s pretty important insight. Isn’t it? Safety doesn’t necessarily

Charley: No, of

Terry: there’s a country music singer called Chris Stapleton and he’s got a song there’s lyrics in this song and he says, nobody wins afraid of losing.

and the hard roads are the ones worth choosing. And I try to remember that as much as I can, because we all have that tendency to want to play it safe. But it’s also, what’s going to kind of lead to the long term failure. It’s more comfortable in the short term, but in the long term, it’s less comfortable

Charley: Hugely. So I can only imagine not taking that path and then having to look at myself when I’m 70 and say, what did you do with your life? And I just, I think that’s a horrible, reality that happens for some people when it may not be that way.

Terry: Yeah. And you mentioned that like some of the advice you were getting and some of the concerns that you were getting were coming from that place and wanting you to be safe, but how much of that as well is also coming from those people who are looking at you, doing the thing they didn’t do or chose not to do and projecting their kind of sense of despair onto you. how much of that do you.


is true?

Charley: we’ve mentioned one side of it is, which is, again, the people that were like trying to keep me safe. The other part of it was, is I was very fortunate to have a few key people that were like, you can literally will house you. If you destroy everything swing for the fence, go for it.

All. Don’t play small do not settle at all. Do ridiculous. And I was like, that was hugely powerful. And then the other side of it was the people that it was just their existence. Like the people I’m hanging around of. And it’s like what do you mean? Like, of course you’re gonna have a business.

it just seemed like common sense to them. How would you even think about going that way? they lived in a different reality to those people. That’s all it was. awesome to have all of that, but you gotta balance that if everyone in your life is negative, pessimistic failed in business.

And they’re like, oh, look, I tried business didn’t work. They don’t work. Businesses don’t work, you can’t ever make it. Like it’s gonna be very hard for you to grow in that environment or do something special. So if you don’t create an environment to succeed for yourself, it’s not gonna happen.

I’ll tell a little funny story here. For a while in my life, I lived in Brighton which is like an older area of Victoria. I used to go to the gym, like during the middle of the day, at this point in my life. And it’s basically full of like retirees and you go in there and like, I’ll tell you what, if you ever wanna feel strong.

Woo. Yeah. I’m like on the machines killing it. And then I changed the gyms. I was going to, to what, I’ll call a bit more of a meathead gym. And I go in there and I am the smallest. Skylift the light weights. And talk about a prospective shift on reality and like it forced me to, in the brighten experience, there was nothing pushing. In the arena of the meatheads, which I love them. Like you are my people. I like what these guys are about. Very disciplined humans. It’s like suddenly I’m like pushing for every rep it’s the same for life. if you are hanging around any environment, you can bring this into anything.

It’s like certain environments build you. Others will destroy you and knowing that can make a huge difference.

Terry: massive point. environment design. it seems to me that you’ve been doing that either consciously or unconsciously all the way through understanding the importance of the environment that you are moving through, that you are

spending time in.

Charley: It’s a huge consideration for me today. It’s very intentional today.

Terry: What tells you that you’re in the wrong environment? What are some markers that are telling you?

I environment.

Charley: Yeah.

Terry: need to change my

Charley: I, I am of the belief at this point in my life that I’m still in a growing phase. I want to do more and growing more and there’s things that can be measured for that. Not just financially, but like health relationships, like all the areas of life. And what I find is I’ll end up in a bit of a rut and it does happen from time to time.

So when that happens, it’s normally a sign that it’s time to change the room. And I say that metaphorically, of course, I don’t mean like just actually go to a different room, that’s normally one of the byproducts of it, or maybe I’ve become too comfortable. I look at those things. So I think for everyone is like, you should be measuring your life.

Think the easiest way to get stagnant and not be aware of it is just not to measure. When you are measuring enables an environment for you to go well, am I on track or not on track? Am I progressing or am I declining? So I certainly do that and obsessed data tracker as well.

Terry: do you think stops people from


Charley: It’s very uncomfortable to have to get on the scales when you know, you’re overweight. And look at that number is not fun to have to open the bank account. it’s like, oh, had a big weekend, bought a few things. I shouldn’t, it’s like, that’s not fun. So I think facing reality and truth is very hard for people, but I think it’s even harder when it’s like, they don’t have good solutions for it.

Not to be that way so successful people love to be. I’m sure. Michael Jordan loved looking at the stats sheet. I think it’s easier to harsh at first, but becomes enjoyable when you are making progress in the areas that are important to you.

Terry: It’s like drer says, isn’t it. What

gets measured gets managed.

Charley: Hugely true. And I will change that. something I do is like, if I’m going through a time where I’m looking at my health, he’s like, that’s something I’ll start measuring more and, or start paying attention to.

Terry: Yeah. Love that. What is it like for you now to know that you don’t have to get up and work tomorrow, if you don’t want to?

Charley: so the first initial part of that was super weird. Nothing really changed, but over time the biggest difference I noticed today is that it’s the difference between choosing what you wanna do versus having to do something. So like I still do business and like I love business. I don’t sit on a beach or do anything ridiculous, like that I actually like love to keep doing the things I’m doing.

So choosing them though is a very different environment, choosing to do hard things versus having to do hard things makes you think about it very differently.

Terry: how does it make you think about it differently? What is different about that choice?

Charley: You don’t just do things

Purely for financial means, like when I was growing my first business I’ll accept. I took on some projects and clients I didn’t wanna do, but would allow us to pay this payroll.

Or would keep the lights on or would get us a meeting with the next person where these days it’s like, I don’t have to do any of that.

If there’s a job I don’t wanna take, I just don’t. there’s someone I wanna work with, I work with them. Or if I wanna start a new podcast, I start a new podcast. it’s very different. I also have reshaped some of the things I do to be more. So in previous times I was very worried about financials and like getting businesses to work where now I care more about the people I work with than I did and growing them or working with people I want to work with or what will this project do?

So even in this time now, it’s like I’m hopeful. Someone will listen to this podcast and go, I’m the 22 year old version of Charlie right now. And I don’t like what’s around. They’re gonna change because of it, or they’re gonna see that this could be possible for them. And I look at that and go that they’re the types of things that start to become like your normal day to day life.

And like, I would love to write some books at some point on this stuff. And ultimately like help more people achieve what I’ve been able to get


Terry: yeah. It strikes me as well. That your return on time has increased dramatically because of what you’ve been able to accomplish financially. Yeah. Like what you get out of the time you spend every single day, that’s going away, you get more because you don’t have to make those compromises that

you would otherwise have to make.

Charley: Yeah, there’s definitely hidden effects like that as well.

Terry: And if you were that 22 year old version of yourself and you were feeling like you wanted more, what advice would you give to that


Charley: First thing I would do is find people who have got the result that you would like. So find people that are doing it and whatever you have to do to start spending more time with them, whether it’s reading their books, doing their courses, joining their masterminds, whatever it is. I think that’s a world changing activity I really do.

So start to really get ingrained of like how their result could be possible for you. And then the second component of that is the education component. It’s likely whatever you’re in and this is the thing I get into the most trouble for in that fire group is when someone will say, look, I can’t make any more money.

I can’t make a change. And I say, Bullshit. you mean you don’t want to, you don’t want to do that. All right. It’s like, well, if you can start to see that, then you can start shaping the skills that would go with that. And there’s so many opportunities these days, like there has never been a better time in history to make money, nor has it been easier that if you talk to certain people, they will be convinced the opposite is true.


Charley: You’ve gotta have money to make money. the richer getting richer,

Terry: all these money memes. they sound truthful, but they’re not the truth. That’s the weird stuff about it. Isn’t it like there’s so many half truths in


Charley: and contradictions if you look at it, how many new millionaires there are, look at that sta it’s astonish.

But it’s like, oh no, gotta have money to make money. it’s so many endless contradictions in this space. And to the point of the beliefs, we’re choosing to make them on.

 I was in a mastermind. This is like five years ago and there was five people in that group I got along with really well, just coincidentally it’s five. Every one of them at that point was starting in business green, probably hasn’t made a thousand dollars online or maybe a thousand, we’ll say 10,000.

Every one of them has made more than a million dollars online. Now, every one of them would be millionaires in their self. And I look at that and I go, the room you wanna find yourself in? They’re the people you wanna start associating with. And You will see that those things can be a reality for you as well.

Like it’s not a zero sum game. Like me making more doesn’t mean you have to make less

Terry: Yeah.

Charley: your friends doing well. Doesn’t mean that you don’t get to do.

Terry: Yeah, it’s interesting. And I love the point you make too around the opportunity. That’s there for us. Like, in the past, we’ve kind of explored how the whole economic systems changed. And there are parts of it that are harder for our generation in terms of, buying a house and things like that.

But the other point that we make, and I think that you are hitting on just perfectly here, is that the opportunities we have to make money or unparalleled, no other generation has enjoyed the opportunity that we

have. It’s crazy. Right. I, can’t even explain to my Nan, my Nana who’s still with me, my grandmother, what I do. Like she can’t conceptualize because of the world is so different if you are in stagnant things and I will call these out, I think what’s very challenging is if you’re in the medical system, government system, those type of arenas that can have a lot of ceilings around them.

Charley: no judgment. A lot of great people into those things, but they’re the ones I notice a lot where it’s like there are bands and limits and things designed where they can only work up to a point. It’s very likely that the opportunities that don’t have those limits are the new things.

So the internet related things, the AI related things, the crypto related things, like all the opportunities in these newer spaces is just amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Terry: it is. Isn’t it like you go out on a limb, you go out onto the cutting edge of things and you’re pioneering in that way. But nobody’s doing it. Everybody’s afraid of change instead of actually leaning into it and figuring out what it means, and then positioning yourself to profit, cuz that’s where all the profit is.

Jeff Bezos starts Amazon because he says, look, I’m doing this investment banking thing. And I find out that the internet is growing at this massive rate or knots. I don’t know what I’m gonna do, but I’m gonna ride the wave. And so I’m gonna quit my job right now and then figure out how to ride the wave.

like, that’s you leading the change? Isn’t it.

Charley: Yeah. I admire a lot of people in that space They were true visionaries past myself is like to see Amazon or to see Tesla or to see Facebook before it was like how much risk was associated compared to what I’ve done. And I like to think I’ve still got a result, but it’s like, you don’t have to be the next Zuckerberg to have a phenomenally successful life.

But at

Terry: Yeah.

Charley: those opportunities exist.

Terry: I think that’s, what’s lost on people. Right. You kind of thinking it is all or nothing, you’re either Jeff base or you’re not cut out for the space, but you could do so well, personally, at a much lower level for a whole lot less risk than all that sort of stuff.

So, yeah. I, bring up that example, but you’re right. Like it’s probably worth pointing out. we don’t expect. And we shouldn’t expect ourselves to be Jeff basis. The point is really more about how you relate to change.

Charley: Completely.

Terry: Yeah. So what are some of the choices that are available to you now from an investing standpoint that have got you to this?

Was it all the business or was it then learning personal finance and investing that sort supercharged things for you to get you to a point where you’re

financially secure in that way?

Charley: Yeah. this is something I will completely acknowledge once again, is like, I made massive mistakes here as I have in business. Like I’m not gonna pretend this is a one-sided swing at all. For me, I was like purely focused on business. Eat, sleep repeat. And I used to joke. I was like, the only reason I go to the gym is just so I can have more energy during the day for business.

Like, that’s it, ,

Food is simply fueled to do business, like everything. Yeah. Like that’s how I was. I was very fortunate and this is something where I got to a place where I’d actually paid off my house. So I used to just take my profits, put it on my house, go back to business. Investing doesn’t exist to me.

Don’t wanna know about it someday. And then I got to that point where my house was paid off and I’m looking at it. I’m like, oh, crap. Now what? and then I’m looking around again. And these same things start to come up is like, okay, knowing what to do with money, when you have, it is a skill you haven’t developed, you could have making money, but mentor used to say like making money and keeping money are two different skill sets.

And I was like okay. Time to learn this other skill set. at this point I took a lot of the same things we’ve discussed at this point of going. What are the different ways to do this? Who’s doing it. Well, I tried shares. I tried day trading options, trading, passive stuff, active stuff. I tried little bit of crypto stuff.

I again, went down a few different exploratory, errors and tried a bunch of stuff to see, well, what works, what doesn’t, what do I like? Is there anything that naturally fits the skills I have? And took the same means to that. And eventually came around and selected property would be one of the main drivers for me.

So I liked property being in the trade. I understood. Like the mechanics. And then I felt with what I’m able to do in business, this opens up a huge amount of borrowing power. That, again, I didn’t realize was gonna be like a huge advantage of that. So the earnings I had in business that income mixed with the paid off house really enabled me to go quite quick here.

That a lot of people wouldn’t necessarily. To do. people call bullshit on it all the time. I’ve had so many people say it’s not real. It’s not true. but at the same time, you can see that this was years in the making of where we got to here. So when all in, on property at that point and had a good crack at it,

Terry: Yep. And so would you just stick purely with proper? You don’t really, venture outside that now.

Charley: I do have some things I’m starting to play with today. This is probably going back a few years at that. But I had decided that well, let’s just try one of these and get it working. And then we may try another one at another point. So I again, went from the one house to where today I have like 10, so we have 10 properties we have in our portfolio, which I’m quite proud of and a good debt level and everything So we went and did that created something that’s positively cash flow and supports the business in a really healthy way and supports our lifestyle in a really healthy way. And then today we may do some more property. We’ve also started taking our superannuation a little bit more seriously after years of neglect as a business owner and a few other things like that.

And then I do have a little bit of crypto as well that I again, am just excited about the space and the opportunities that exist.

Terry: Yeah. Yeah, no, we are as well. I think it’s just opened up so much for us too around understanding this whole space and intellectually. I find it fascinating, the whole thing. What is it like to know that you don’t have a mortgage? You’ve paid off the house.

Charley: this is again, one of these things that I have copped a little bit of heat for in certain communities online. But it’s like when you do the maths, you better off probably investing and not paying your house off. Mathematically, I get it. There’s opportunity cost.

You can build your portfolio, but sleeping in a house you own. Oh, wow. It is a feeling like no other to realize you own it, like it’s yours. And I know a lot of people get that in their older years. Like when they let’s say in their fifties and sixties, it’s probably a lot more common, but for me, a 30 to have that was just like this sensation of reward that, Hey, what you’ve been doing has paid off, like, this is the fruits of your labor.

The side effect I didn’t expect is I put my wrist tolerance through the roof.

I’m like, well, own the house. Cool. Knock the cover off the ball. Go for it. You don’t have a mortgage to pay anymore. You should go harder. Like you have less excuses to play small now. And that certainly rained true in other ways.

So my opportunities came up and I would again, be more risky than I were where like, for things like crypto, for example, I probably would’ve said no, not offer me. I’ve got this thing to focus on where it’s like, well, do you know what? I am gonna have a little girl at this? I’m not gonna say I have a crazy amount in or anything like that, but it’s I look at it and go, well, I’m more inclined to take different risks.

Now that’s happen.

Terry: Yeah. something I’m interested in and, mean there’s groups as well, and you can see people just run the numbers on everything and I think that’s fine, but You can also just get too myopic with that, because it may be true in your spreadsheet that it’s more optimal to not pay your mortgage off as much sooner and start investing outside sooner.

But you’re a business owner, and so not having the mortgage paid off and knowing that that’s sitting there versus having it paid off you going into work the level and the, I guess the scope and the size of your. that’s gonna change dramatically. As he said, like, now you like knock the cover off it.

Right? So your return on time invested, coming from that place versus, oh, still got a mortgage, gotta be careful. You can’t measure that, but I’m sure that you get a better return. Would you agree?

Charley: this is a Charlie beliefs thing. Now this, I won’t say this is universally true, but I think one of the things that’s really important for people is to find the recipe that works for them. in health and fitness, like the same diet on two people will do differently just based on their genetics and wiring and what they do.

I think the same’s true when it comes to career and business and investing. so for me, this formula works really well. I think it is a good formula. Is it the perfect one? Maybe not, but I would look at this in the other way and say that when people find their own stride, it will likely be the best opportunity for them overall.

I’ll put that disclaimer in, we’ve got the

Terry: Yeah. So yeah, the caveat is if you’ve found your thing, your time is best

invested that way. Yeah.

Charley: The second thing to that though, is that a lot of these people that will give you the mathematically correct option aren’t able to wait in the personal circumstance. so for me right now, I employ about 50 people. And do you know what would keep me up at night, not being able to pay them.

Doing things like negative gearing, when you look at it where you are buying property with there, you have to keep putting money in. If something came up and I’ve gotta pay a mortgage and a team that’s creating a more stressful environment for me to operate in. And I go, am I gonna do my best work when I’m stressed?

So I look at investment choices from the point of view where I’ve gone. All right. I must invest in things that increase my cash flow because every investment I make, I want to be de-risked so that if I can use the funds from that and pay my team, should it exist? Or invest in the business or buy more investments.

But that flavor has really worked for me with the eyes of having a business. And I think, again, this is an opinion, but if you’re a business owner, I think that the best way to invest is in a way that increases cash flow doesn’t necessarily decreases cash flow, because I think that can be a crutch.

I’ve come across people where they got into tax debt early in business. And that ends up being the thing that holds them back from ever having a successful business, because they’ve continually got this monkey on their back. They’ve gotta feed. myself didn’t wanna create that for

Terry: Yeah, I think you’re hitting on a truth here, I think it’s Warren buffet says this. He’s like, I’m a better investor cuz I’m a business owner and I’m a better business owner because I’m an investor. Sounds

like that’s the case for.

Charley: certainly has been a lot of crossovers in those for me as well. When I started investing more, I started thinking about elements of my business. I never thought about, assets and cash flow in the same way that I would’ve at that point. And at the same point is like seeing my business as a vehicle, basically this my business’s job for a lot of the time I’ve had it in recent years is your job is to get deposits, to buy property.

And like that’s the outcome I’m looking for is like, well, how many deposits can I get out of my business? Where previously I would just be looking at, well, this is how much money we made.

Terry: Yeah, that’s interesting too. And the other thing that I’m picking up here is that you have gotten quite sophisticated about how you think about and used leverage in a bunch of different ways, financial leverage, labor leverage in terms of the people in your business, but also obviously your business itself.

It’s media, that’s a new form of leverage as well. So has that been deliberate from your end or is it something that’s skill that’s

slowly developed with time?

Charley: intentional. No glad it happened. Yes. To the point is like, oh, again, very lucky to have a mentor at a point, it was like, look, video is the only way to replicate you at scale. if you want to demonstrate how to do something in a business, And you need to train all your staff on it, make a video, cuz then they can just watch the video.

You don’t have to one on one train people. And that was really like an opening to like different kinds of leverage, which you’re looking at here in recent years and discovering Neal’s work. It sounds like you’ve read the Naval MAAC if I had to guess. Great book. Great book. When I had heard that articulated by him and understanding that, you have capital leverage people leverage, and then he calls it code leverage in the book.

But if you are making things on the internet or products that’s something that allows you to scale. And we intentionally do a lot more of that today. So we like to scale our business through podcasting, like we are now or products or even courses in training because they have a very co low cost to replicate and.

Terry: Yeah, it’s the same with us. The real benefit of doing this. It takes a lot of time and energy to do this, but do it well. It pays you forever. that sort of one off that investment it’s probably something else I’m interested to quickly explore with you before we wrap up is the investment mindset, right?

For you to make the leap something I’ve learned. And I continually see that I’m learning is that there is no growth without investment. So your first investment might be an emotional one. Your first investment was the emotional investment to say yes, I’m gonna change my identity from being a plumber.

I’m gonna cross that sort of ledge and walk across this other side and start to build a new identity. That’s an emotional investment you have to make first, and then you make a time investment to be able to figure out what you need to know. And then you make a financial investment.

When you take the risk to be able to do that. How has that changed for you? Is it only just amplify that idea? you’ve done that at every stage and strikes me that have to

invest before you get growth.

Charley: again, I can’t say right, I’ve never done it, but my belief is that keeps happening. So the thing that I find interesting about that comment is in the beginning, I believe that, I need this investment skill to happen. Like I need a tactical skill and that’s why I don’t have the result today.

I believe it’s like a mindset and belief skill I need.

Terry: Yes.

Charley: I didn’t get that back then. for example, I’ll give you one, I use often if I’m doing something and I wanna get better at it. The first thing I say to myself is, well, how teachable are you right now? Are you going into this?

Trying to just take what you know, or are you trying to actually get better? And like, sometimes I’ll like, I’ll read something and I’m basically just wanted to get my ego into it. I do that. I do I’m like, well, hang on. How teachable are you right now? Are you really teachable or is this just like a puff piece? And it’s fine if it’s a puff piece, but enjoy it right. Say you’re good looking as well. And like, get the fan club in and run some applause in the background. No, I really look to that and go that’s where it starts.

So it’s, like I say the investment in mindset and you is the beginning. And if you can build on that, then you get to add the skills on top of that, where reversing it is like, oh, well, if I know how to run this, then I’ll be successful.

Terry: What do you say to the person who’s listening to this episode and starting to believe that you’re exceptional. And you’re the exception to the rule. This is great, Charlie, this is amazing your story, but it just sounds to me like you’ve been uniquely suited to this for your whole life and everything set you up for success.

What would you say to that?

Charley: it’s funny that has become quite common. Like that is something that I get, again, a bit of pushback in is like, I will go into a well meaning conversation and people will say something like, well, that’s fine for you. at, Look at the luck you had that doesn’t exist today. you don’t know my story.

it’s difficult for me to hear because people have painted a perception that somehow this was easy for me or like that I didn’t fail along the way or that it didn’t cost money to do it or that I didn’t cop hits or that my family didn’t think I was crazy. Or like it didn’t cause challenges in every area of my life.

It did. It absolutely did. And by no means, am I promising easy if you’re looking for easy it’s easy to be a victim. But it will be hard when you’re 70 to look back and realize that’s what you chose. Cause it’s a choice. So when I hear that from there is like, I wanna assure people that I’m not special.

I am literally a high school dropout who did a plumbing apprenticeship that potentially saw the world a little bit different than some people at that point in their. The great news is that’s a very easy thing to adopt. Like I’ve shared these stories from here, but there could not be. And I imagine there’s people in harder circumstances that have even done more than I have right.

Again, and I’m sure there’s countless endeavors of that, but to think this is impossible for you is that I just have to give so much pushback to, because I think many people are actually ahead of where I was intellectual. Skill wise, like they were far ahead of me, but they’ve built a narrative around why it’s not possible for them.

It’s a belief thing. I would like to think that they can believe me on that and build something around it where reach out to me. Like if you wanna hear more about it I’m, happy to help. that’s why I do these things. I’d encourage you to look for the examples of where other people have done it and really work around the idea of going well, this is possible for me and I can do.

luck could find you on the way as well. Like how do you know you’re not the person sitting there right now that when you start this, you’re gonna be more lucky than me. It’s only take you three years. But if you don’t have a try, well, how would we know.

Terry: Yeah, great point something that’s really good to end on, I think as well, mate, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your knowledge, sharing your wisdom, your experiences, what, and all really appreciate how I guess how honest you’ve been as well through the whole thing. Where can people learn a little bit more about what you are doing and who you are

as well?

Charley: Absolutely. So you can go to Charlie is I suppose what’ll say is my personal website. I have all my projects and things like that on there. I also have a, podcast starting today called asset blocks which is all about the investing stuff I do. That’s probably more for the business owners out there who are wanting to get financially savvy, but it’s a free resource people.

Hear more of my thoughts and ideas, and either tell me how terrible they are or can help. ’em immensely. guess time will tell, but at the same time, I hope it’s gonna be helpful particularly to the business owners.


Terry: listen that’s for sure.

Charley: Appreciate it. I’ll pass along a link so you can include it in your notes as well.

Terry: Very good. Thanks again.